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GoatBasher
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1#
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Rank:none
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Registered:31/07/2007
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(Date Posted:14/10/2007 08:08:09)
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JSchwartz
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2#
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(Date Posted:18/10/2007 01:46:45)
Thank you for the reply. I was hoping to spend a bit less to get started but I will keep the Dancemaster in mind. I have not yet had much luck finding anything used and there are no shops that carry accordions in my area. I am still hopefully that someone will see this post.
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GoatBasher
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3#
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(Date Posted:18/10/2007 04:04:58)
Reply to : JSchwartz
Thank you for the reply. I was hoping to spend a bit less to get started butI will keep theDancemaster in mind. I have not yet had much luck finding anything used and there are no shops that carry accordions in my area. I am still hopefully that someone will see this post.
I understand completely. I did all of what you are doing. I was going to buy a Hohner Morgane or a Double Ray, but when I asked the sales person at Accordionarama, about how the accordion was tuned, and what was the bass layout, his answer was "I am not going to teach you to play the accordion."
The Irish Dancemaster was made especially for me to my specifications. I was able to upgrad the reeds, and customize the bass layout. I was able to discuss what I wanted with the guy who was going to build it for me.
Good luck on your search.
GoatBasher
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Theo Gibb
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4#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain 
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:18/10/2007 12:02:28)
Reply to : JSchwartz
Thank you for the reply. I was hoping to spend a bit less to get started but I will keep the Dancemaster in mind. I have not yet had much luck finding anything used and there are no shops that carry accordions in my area. I am still hopefully that someone will see this post.
Have you tried The Botton Box? They have an excellent reputation and will look after you.
They do Weltmeister 2-row which are cheaper than Dancemaster or Hohner.
The only other cheaper instruments you will find are Chinese made with Italian sounding names like Serenelli, Morelli, or even completely unbranded. You will see them regularly on ebay. They are cheap in price and cheaply built out of cheap materials. They will give you a low-priced entry into box playing, but if you make progress you will probably want something better in a few months.
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mistermacky
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5#
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(Date Posted:18/10/2007 16:03:07)
A second hand Hohner would be ideal for a new player. But you want to make sure it has the 'modern' bass layout, which is either the Paulo Soprani layout, or the amended Soprani layout usually called 'modern basses, or 'McComisky' layout. Early double rays had a virtually unuseable bass layout, usually called the 'Hohner' layout. Check this web page to see the difference,
http://kevinmcalpine1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/My%20own%20Double%20Ray%20layouts.htm
Also, try and get one that is in good tune, or it will cost you to get it sounding right.
Delicia populars are pretty good, nice and playable with good tone, and well made.
You could buy a used box on ebay, but wait till you find one in good condition, not needing work, and in good tune.
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JSchwartz
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6#
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Rank:none
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Registered:14/10/2007
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(Date Posted:18/10/2007 16:12:43)
Thanks to all for the advice and especially for the info on the bass configuration. I hope hope it is appropriate to count on you for help in finding answers to questions during my search. Which leads me to a question that popped up lately. What is "wet" and "dry" tuned?
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Theo Gibb
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7#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:18/10/2007 20:05:32)
Reply to : mistermacky
You could buy a used box on ebay, but wait till you find one in good condition, not needing work, and in good tune.
Good advice, but the problem is how do you know? Many sellers know nothing about music and assume that if all the buttons make a sound it must be in good condition.
Case in point: I recently bought a Hohner Erica C/F on ebay. Its cosmetically excellent, came in its original cardboard carton, but when it arrived I discovered it had one broken reed. Not a problem for me as I can repair it, but would be a problem for a new player.
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mistermacky
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8#
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Rank:none
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(Date Posted:19/10/2007 15:50:33)
Yes, quite true Theo.
You have to be careful of lots of things when buying on ebay. Firstly don't bid unless the seller has plenty of feedback, with a rating of at least 98% positive. Look for one that offers paypal protection up to ?00, and if you can't do any repair work, look for a seller who is a player and declares it to be in good playing condition, or recently tuned or overhauled. They do come up, but you have to be patient. You can always ask questions of the seller, and if they don't reply, don't bid.
The redeeming factor with ebay is that you should have a few quid to play with, even if it does need a little bit of work, but for a new player, best find one in good playing condition.
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mistermacky
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9#
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Rank:none
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(Date Posted:19/10/2007 16:18:35)
Hi Jschwarz,
if you play the guitar, wet or dry should be familiar to you. If you use one string to tune another, you get a 'beat' when they are nearly in tune. It's the same on a button box, where you have two or more reeds playing the same note, when you press a button. A 'wet' tuned box has fast beats, dry tuned has slow or no beat on a note. ( High notes generally beat faster than low notes on the same box ). Generally, a 'wet tuned' box has a fuller 'chorus' type tone, and 'dry tuned' sounds thinner, but purer and sweeter. Most modern players go for a drier sound these days, but some styles still sound great on a wet box, especially when playing solo.
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Theo Gibb
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10#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:19/10/2007 18:31:11)
Reply to : mistermacky
...A 'wet' tuned box has fast beats,
Agreed
dry tuned has slow or no beat on a note.
"Dry" is no beat at all, not even the slightest. A slow beat is sometimes referred to as "swing"
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an-bosca-ceoil
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11#
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Rank:none
Posts:30
Registered:21/05/2007
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(Date Posted:20/10/2007 02:12:16)
Reply to : Theo Gibb
Good advice, but the problem is how do you know? Many sellers know nothing about music and assume that if all the buttons make a sound it must be in good condition.Case in point: I recently bought a Hohner Erica C/F on ebay. Its cosmetically excellent, came in its original cardboard carton, but when it arrived I discovered it had one broken reed. Not a problem for me as I can repair it, but would be a problem for a new player.
Truth is that you never can tell! Despite what Kevin says about buying from players, who can make something sound half decent down the phone (assuming it really is the one they are selling)and going for ones that have been overhauled/tuned (but still have the original rolled up valves) it is always going to be a "buyer beware" scenario.
Anyway I did not really want to back down the "pros & cons of buying off eBay" road, but to ask you to elaborate on the terminology of wet/dry tuning,
bearing in mind that you are talking to a bit of a muppet!
I have seen people saying that two row melodeons have been retuned to concert pitch but fail to understand how, once you add any tremolo, that can still be the case. I can only assume that they mean they have retuned from old "minus" to modern "plus" tremolo because, if they had dried it out they would say that?
Still in muppet mode, I have been looking at the proposals for revamping this site and hardly understand a word of it! However I did see somewhere that it might be costing you money and I for one would be willing to chip in if that is the case.
Whilst I would not presume to make suggestions as to the future format I do think it would be nice if there were were more postings on Events, however insignificant. Someone somewhere must have played a note in public this week?
Regards, Bruce
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mistermacky
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12#
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Rank:none
Posts:50
Registered:30/12/2006
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(Date Posted:20/10/2007 02:52:31)
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"Dry" is no beat at all, not even the slightest. A slow beat is sometimes referred to as "swing"
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Dry, swing and wet never seem enough to me, considering the range of sound it covers.
How about 'bone dry', dry, swing, damp and wet? Or is there room for moist as well? Could be onto something here!
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an-bosca-ceoil
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13#
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Rank:none
Posts:30
Registered:21/05/2007
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(Date Posted:22/10/2007 22:13:46)
Reply to : mistermacky
- Could be onto something here!
Reckon it is a "Half-Soaked" idea to have so many degrees of wetness!
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Old Leaky
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14#
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Rank:none
Posts:65
Registered:09/02/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:22/10/2007 22:16:37)
Reply to : an-bosca-ceoil
"Half-Soaked" idea to have so many degrees of wetness!
A term normally asscociated with moothies (and nothing to do with saliva!) ...
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mistermacky
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15#
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Rank:none
Posts:50
Registered:30/12/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:23/10/2007 00:42:36)
Reply to : an-bosca-ceoil
Reply to : mistermacky- Could be onto something here!Reckon it is a "Half-Soaked" idea to have so many degrees of wetness!
Aaaaaaaaaaaw! And I thought this was my chance to make a big splash! Think about it though, if Eskimos can have twenty different words for snow, why can't we have more than three for wet/dryness? I'd like a 'soaking wet' box, or even 'wringing wet', and why not 'dryzabone' for the aussie market?
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an-bosca-ceoil
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16#
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Rank:none
Posts:30
Registered:21/05/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:23/10/2007 01:42:00)
Reply to : mistermacky
Reply to : an-bosca-ceoilReply to : mistermacky- Could be onto something here!Reckon it is a "Half-Soaked" idea to have so many degrees of wetness!Aaaaaaaaaaaw! And I thought this was my chance to make a big splash! Think about it though, if Eskimos can have twenty different words for snow, why can't we have more than three for wet/dryness? I'd like a 'soaking wet' box, or even 'wringing wet', and why not 'dryzabone' for the aussie market?
Kevin, I am beginning to think you you would make a good wine buff!
Where would demi-sec with a subtle nuance of WD 40 fall in your scale of things?
I am hoping that Theo will look back down this "topic" and explain the correct usage of the term "concert tuned" - I might be capable of grasping that!
Regards, Bruce
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mistermacky
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17#
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Rank:none
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(Date Posted:23/10/2007 15:11:06)
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Kevin, I am beginning to think you you would make a good wine buff!
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Yeh but.... only problem is I don't like wine. But I do like a little wd40 in my meths.
I take concert pitch to mean a=440 on my tuner, and on a swing or wet tuned box, I would aim to have one reed slightly below, and another slightly above that. Thats me, but others have a different approach, such as one reed bang on, and another slightly higher. I don't know the advantage of other approaches, but I'm happy to learn. To be absolutely accurate, you could only say 'concert pitch' for a bone dry box.
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malcolm clapp
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18#
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Rank:none
Posts:51
Registered:02/07/2004
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(Date Posted:24/10/2007 08:40:11)
why not 'dryzabone' for the aussie market?
Hope this doesn't offend, but a true story.
I asked a reasonably knowledgeable customer here in Australia a while back, knowing that he had a grasp of the concept, whether he wanted his accordion tuned wet or dry.
His reply, in a laconic Aussie drawl, was "Drown the bastard!"
MC
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dunjon
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19#
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Rank:none
Posts:3
Registered:04/10/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:25/10/2007 07:51:27)
There is one B/C Hohner on eBay OZ http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180172480605&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DSelling
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JSchwartz
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20#
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Rank:none
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(Date Posted:05/11/2007 03:02:30)
I am still looking with no luck thus far. Any help would be appreciated.
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-risto-
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21#
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Rank:none
Posts:185
Registered:23/02/2006
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(Date Posted:06/11/2007 01:34:42)
Reply to : JSchwartz
I am still looking with no luck thus far. Any help would be appreciated.
Hey, why don't you just do it easy for yourself and save some more and get a brand new Double Ray or something else with warranty and all...
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