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Polkaholic
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1#
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Rank:none
Posts:316
Registered:18/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:25/09/2007 16:34:54)
G'day Geoff,
Can't help with the technical query but wanted to say hello, remember me? I think you're exaggerating your age, surely it's only 26 or 27 years that you've been at the box? Good to hear you're still at it anyway. Started it myself 3?years ago, largely thanks to strong memories of our mutual friend Simon.
Best regards
Steve Jones (Poteen's pommie fiddler early 1980s)
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mistermacky
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2#
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Rank:none
Posts:50
Registered:30/12/2006
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(Date Posted:26/09/2007 01:07:25)
Hi Geoff,
re the spring weight, you could replace the springs with weaker ones, but you run the risk of the pallets lifting on high squeeze pressures, and losing air etc.
You could try replacing one of the lowest notes springs, and see if this happens.
Some are easy to replace, some not so. If you can't find suitable springs, you can make your own springs out of music wire, by winding it round a suitable spindle, and then baking in an oven to release stress. There are sites on the web to tell you how.
I would personally rather sell it, and get a box you really like. ( that's if anyone will buy it, now you've told them it's faults!!
Kev.
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pushpullefty
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3#
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Rank:none
Posts:15
Registered:25/09/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:26/09/2007 05:28:52)
Hi Steve. The connection had occured to me as I saw your name, but not knowing that you were either in Canada, or actually on to the box! I'd always thought of you as one of the hard men of the fiddle. This is great news indeed.
Things are still rocking in Melbourne with sessions going most nights of the week. There are some great young muso's around, although only one young box player on a Weltmeister BC. I've been getting along to the Lomond in Brunswick. Dan Bourke's session. Do you remember him? This can be a bit spasmodic but the place and time are good. The Dan's still going on Saturday night.
I'ts nice to here that someone has been influenced positively by Simon. I assume you've heard that he 's not playing any more. He died suddenly 12 years ago. Things haven't been the same since! There is a CD available 'Last Nights Fun'. That's all there is left of him apart from those great memories. He should be up there with the best. Certainly as unique as his style was on a little Hohner DG playing ITM. Louis McMannus followed Simon not long after, and John Keanan too. It was a bad time. Thats understating it!
Regards Geoff.
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Theo Gibb
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4#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain 
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:26/09/2007 10:38:23)
Geoff
It is usually possible to adjust the spring tension by bending the legs of the existing springs. Do one first to get the button feel you want, then use it as a template for the others.
You could also try contacting Malcolm Clapp in NSW
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pushpullefty
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5#
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Rank:none
Posts:15
Registered:25/09/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:26/09/2007 14:59:37)
Reply to : Theo Gibb
GeoffIt is usually possible to adjust the spring tension by bending the legs of the existing springs. Do one first to get the button feel you want, then use it as a template for the others.You could also try contacting Malcolm Clapp in NSW
Thanks Theo. This sounds like a good first option. I've done it on Hohners. I have a couple of Cajun box's and these have a much lighter action, despite the size of the pallets. They also use coil springs, as does an old grey two voice Frontalini that I have. I was considering doing something like that. I'd prefer to hang on to the Box as it is very nicely lefthanded. I know that I should have. but I don't think I've actually met Malcolm Clapp. Australia is a physically big place! That means that what Box players there are are pretty widely spaced apart.
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Polkaholic
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6#
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Rank:none
Posts:316
Registered:18/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:26/09/2007 21:07:06)
Hi again Geoff
Yes I knew about Simon - I have sung his praises on this forum in the past, turning at least one other Aussie squeezer onto his music via the posthumous CD. And Louis and John too, unbelievable, and tragic. Of course I remember Danny Bourke - pls give him my regards.
Do stick around here and spread some of your knowledge and experience about. BTW, how long have you been playing C#/D? And I don't remember your being lefthanded, did you use to play that old D/G Hohner upside down? Shows you how much attention I was playing to the niceties of box playing at the time... but I did pay attention to the music, wasn't it great back then?
Cheers
Steve
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-risto-
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7#
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Rank:none
Posts:185
Registered:23/02/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:27/09/2007 10:41:05)
Reply to : pushpullefty
... Box players there are are pretty widely spaced apart...
Many might love Australia for that:-)
About the springs though. Springs are hardened steel so there is always a good chance that you will not get a good or concistent result for all buttons modifying them yourself. Modern spring manufacturers have CNC machines which make any kind of spring in a sec. I'm sure there are such companies in Australia too, who are also willing to make small amounts. It may cost a little more but it's worth it. They will also calculate you the right wire thickness and # of turns based on the current spring and how much weaker you need the new ones to be.
You can also get accordion springs from http://www.carinidena.com (componenti/molle) but it may be difficult to specify what you need unless you can do the spring math yourself.
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Theo Gibb
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8#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:27/09/2007 11:37:02)
Reply to : -risto-
I'm sure there are such companies in Australia too, who are also willing to make small amounts.
One spring maker I asked told me the minimum quantity for a special order is 1kg!
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pushpullefty
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9#
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Rank:none
Posts:15
Registered:25/09/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:27/09/2007 15:08:25)
Reply to : Polkaholic
Hi again GeoffYes I knew about Simon - I have sung his praises on this forum in the past, turning at least one other Aussie squeezer onto his music via the posthumous CD. And Louis and John too, unbelievable, and tragic. Of course I remember Danny Bourke - pls give him my regards.Do stick around here and spread some of your knowledge and experience about. BTW, how long have you been playing C#/D? And I don't remember your being lefthanded, did you use to play that old D/G Hohner upside down? Shows you how much attention I was playing to the niceties of box playing at the time... but I did pay attention to the music, wasn't it great back then?CheersSteve
Hi Steve. Yes, geez you've got a good memory. I've always played left handed. The first thing I did when I bought that DG Polkerwork was to open it up and take it apart. It was easy to work out how to reverse the reed blocks, and change the air button position. I had very quickly realized that it was my only way forward to do a proper conversion. It happened when we (Simon, Julie, Steve Edwards & Greg Watson) were all living together in Keppel St. Carlton. I designed the Poteen poster there at that time too. What year was that??
The C#D came in about '86? The first Box was an Erica that had been Mick Flannagans. (He is a cousin of some sort of Joe Cooleys). Roger Lewis converted it for me. I think it had been a CC#. Second came this Baffetti were talking about. Bought new in '89. I ripped into it and made up a set of reed blocks out of hard maple. Now that was a job.
I'm currently playing an old 50's erica (grey) with a wooden keyboard. It has Salpha a mano reeds that came from Frank Romano (FRM). I bought these when I visited Montreal in '92, installed and tuned them myself.This box has great dynamics, weightless action (yes it is noisy) and is lightning fast.
So now, what are you playing? Did you go for DG or stick with one of the more usual Irish tunings. One thing for certain though, you have some fantastic makers around your way. Will the Quebecios makers build for the Irish market? Is Frank Romano still operating FRM? I hope hes's well. He smoked like a steam locomotive as I remember.
See you. Geoff
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Polkaholic
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10#
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Rank:none
Posts:316
Registered:18/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:27/09/2007 16:04:45)
Interesting stuff, Geoff - I have seen quite a few queries on various lists and forums from left-handers wondering how to approach the box. They should all be as resourceful as you!
I'd never heard of Frank Romano but a web search indicates that his shop is just down the road from the big market that I go to most Saturdays so I will make a small detour next time. Pity you didn't know I was in Montreal back in 1992 - get in touch before your next visit.
According to my tuner/repairman, Yves H?ie, most Qu??ois box builders are stick-in-the-muds not interested in doing anything new or out of the ordinary. For instance one of the best-known names refuses to use aluminium sliders for the stops, even though wooden ones persistently give problems because of the huge seasonal changes in humidity here. Why? Because accordions are supposed to be made of wood and on his boxes everything that can be made of wood (rather than metal or anything else) is made of wood and always will be made of wood - tabarouette!.
Messervier made a couple of D/C# boxes (without basses) for Denis P?in (see NorthernMelodeon's review of Denis P's CD on this forum) but apparently isn't interested in making more. DP is now supplied with these by Beltuna, who do good business in Qu?ec these days. I have the name of one very good builder who will do custom boxes but his work is outside my price range.
I'm playing C#D myself - thought long and hard about DG but couldn't hack the thought of being limited to the same keys as a tin whistle. Started with a Saltarelle Irish Bouebe but upgraded to a Serenellini 2?row 3-v after a couple of years because I wanted a C-chord and that meant 12 basses. Great box but sometimes hanker for a lighter one, miss the Bouebe for its portability and easy-goingness. I bought a nice black Double Ray from Theo Gibb that had been converted to C#D as a backup box but was prevailed upon to sell it to a fiddler friend who had got the accordion bug after working in Newfoundland.
Cheers
Steve
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-risto-
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11#
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Rank:none
Posts:185
Registered:23/02/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:28/09/2007 00:12:28)
Reply to : Theo Gibb
One spring maker I asked told me the minimum quantity for a special order is 1kg!
If the box is initially not too heavy you one kilo of springs is no problem:-) (Alternatively, you can toss the extra 900 grams). But seriously, at least here I can get "proto series", they will charge by the hour. It's worth asking.
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pushpullefty
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12#
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Rank:none
Posts:15
Registered:25/09/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:28/09/2007 11:12:42)
Reply to : Polkaholic
Interesting stuff, Geoff - I have seen quite a few queries on various lists and forums from left-handers wondering how to approach the box. They should all be as resourceful as you!I'd never heard of Frank Romano but a web search indicates that his shop is just down the road from the big market that I go to most Saturdays so I will make a small detour next time. Pity you didn't know I was in Montreal back in 1992 - get in touch before your next visit.According to my tuner/repairman, Yves H?ie, most Qu??ois box builders are stick-in-the-muds not interested in doing anything new or out of the ordinary. For instance one of the best-known names refuses to use aluminium sliders for the stops, even though wooden ones persistently give problems because of the huge seasonal changes in humidity here. Why? Because accordions are supposed to be made of wood and on his boxes
Steve. You're a brave man. When I look at what it takes to gain that fluency to actually 'play' music on something like a button accordion. All the bellows and button action is something we need to be neurologically supple enough to learn to drive these things. When I took up the box, I did so after having mucked around on a harmonica since I was five, so I knew instinctively how to play before I did. I dare say your vast experience and repetior on fiddle would be holding you in good stead, but how are you handling things like triplets, rolls,gracenotes? I remember Simon and I both nutting out what to do on DG, there was a kind of gracenote cum pushpull triplet I had worked out that had a good feel. Simon was an expert on cross row triplets which I think was one of the strong points of his style. Much though he wanted to, this was probably why he never switched to C#D.
In '92 when I came through Montreal, I also attended the Montmaginy accordion festival. I was lucky enough to do a workshop with Denis Pepin. Nice guy. I only had a C Acadian box, everybody else in the class had D boxes. He still took the time out to teach me a tune.
Gotta go. Geoff
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Polkaholic
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13#
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Rank:none
Posts:316
Registered:18/07/2004
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(Date Posted:29/09/2007 21:57:28)
Don't know about brave, Geoff, rash more like it! I took to the box without too much pain, but I agree it's a very hard instrument to master - I never analyzed the best way of doing things on other instruments to anything like the same extent. Or so it seems right now!
Yes having the repertoire under my belt has made things a lot easier, and since I was already playing in a danceband (whistle, haven't been able to play fiddle seriously for well over a decade) I had a lot of incentive to get up to speed on the accordion. Doing well enough on graces, rolls and triplets generally - although forever trying to figure out what others are doing and how. (Tried to work out from the recordings exactly what Simon was doing in places like the high f#s in the B part of Last Night's Fun, can't be quite sure how he's doing it, but it's beautifully subtle and very effective.)
Haven't yet made it to Montmagny believe it or not. Denis P?in must have been surprised to meet a Leblanc from Australia. No doubt you were told, if you didn't know, that Leblanc is a very common name in Acadian areas. All the Leblancs I've met in Canada have been from Nova Scotia, New Brunswick or Prince Edward Island!
Steve
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Matthew B
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14#
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Rank:none
Posts:39
Registered:17/10/2005
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(Date Posted:30/09/2007 18:44:31)
Reply to : pushpullefty
Please look for a follow-on question on the "technical" part of the forum!
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