|
skipyskiphire
|
1#
|
Rank:none
Posts:9
From: Great_britain 
Registered:03/09/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
|
(Date Posted:07/11/2007 12:28:20)
Hi again all,
Well, many weeks of practice, joining in sessions and enjoying Guinness have passed since I last wrote here.
Confession time, I still haven't started playing the Bass/Chords and to be honest, I'm not quite sure when and where to use them, so I've concentrated on my right hand, expanding my repertoire and improving the quality!
(It is sooooo much easier playing solo at home than keeping up in a session.... but soooo much more fun!!)
The musicians I've joined in with have advised me that, as I play mainly Irish, I shouldn't worry about the Bass/Chords, I just wondered what your opinions were, whether I should make the effort and if so how?
Many Thanks
Skipy
** One of the best sounds in the world "Can I buy the all the Musicians a drink?" **
|
| Support us |
Create free forum and click the links below and your donations will make a difference here. |
 |
www.dinodirect.com
Online Huge Store for Various Cool Gadgets, Nintendo Wii Controller, iPod Charger, iPhone Cases, BlackBerry Cases, Laptop Accessories, Rechargeable Battery, LED Tactical Flashlight, iPod Earphones, iPhone Charger, Wii Controller, iPod Cables, Video Players, Music Players, Car Accessories, Cell Phone Accessories, Video Games Accessories and Hobby Gadgets.
If you use the code "DDLIFE", all orders will get 10% discount plus worldwide free shipping!
|
Theo Gibb
|
2#
|
Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
|
(Date Posted:07/11/2007 13:52:41)
Hi Skipy
Yes it is definitely worth making the effort!
A harder question is what to play with the left hand. Many players never get past a sort of heavy thumping oom pa, oom pa, oom pa, oom pa, which drive me up the wall when I hear it. If it is done very lightly it can be ok, but it needs some variety to keep it interesting for both player and audience.
You do not need the left hand to put rhythm into your playing. Just think of how much rhythm/drive/lift a good fiddle player can get into a dance tune and aim for that.
So what should you do? Well the best ever playing advice I received was from Andy Cutting. He said " Put the rhythm into your right hand playing, then you can do something more interesting with the left hand"
And the more interesting things can include:
drones (you have C and D on both directions)
bass runs (you have all of the scale of G on an 8 bass except for F#)
off-beat/syncopated bass lines
bass only (no chords) bass lines
just for starters.
As an entry point into this adventure with the bass end try and work out how to play the G scale on the bass buttons and then try a simple tune on the bass only!
|
|
Fee
|
3#
|
Registered:28/03/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
|
(Date Posted:07/11/2007 14:50:57)
Reply to : Theo Gibb
Many players never get past a sort of heavy thumping oom pa, oom pa, oom pa, oom pa, which drive me up the wall when I hear it.
It drives me mad too, but it's what I do, and I'm hoping Saul Rose can help to stop me doing it this weekend!
Re: the question, I should think it'll be easier to learn to play with both hands from the start than leave it for ages and try to pick it up later, should you feel the urge. Look in it as an investment  .
|
|
Theo Gibb
|
4#
|
Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
|
(Date Posted:07/11/2007 20:02:37)
Reply to : Fee
Re: the question, I should think it'll be easier to learn to play with both hands from the start than leave it for ages and try to pick it up later, should you feel the urge. Look in it as an investment.
And while you're doing it try to use all four fingers of your left hand. You might need to take off your wristwatch and push your hand further through the strap.
|
|
Matthew B
|
5#
|
Rank:none
Posts:39
Registered:17/10/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
|
(Date Posted:07/11/2007 21:44:18)
Reply to : skipyskiphire
It's extremely entertaining to try some "cross rowing" (row crossing) with the left hand as well. There are lots of extra chords hidden on the left, and they become more accessible if you use all four fingers. Bass/bass combinations and "wrong" (i.e. non-adjacent) bass/chord combinations can be very interesting. If you have some stops on the left and can drop low notes and thirds the possibilities are even greater, and there are some additional possibilities: chord/chord combinations and bass/bass/bass combinations that work pretty well.
Two things helped me a lot when I started thinking about this myself. First, listening to Chris Parkinson's recording of Mr Isaac's Maggott, which has got some very fancy left-hand stuff in it, and which is slow enough and clear enough for me to follow by ear. Second posting a question here about left hand chords. A number of replies came in, neatly summarized by George "Tony Hall does this very well without any need for a chart which to me is the traditional way to do it. Are we getting in danger of having two schools of thought - the traditional 'if it sounds right do it' and the semi classical/ theoretical who need everything worked out or preset."
In the end I followed George's advice, and I still don't know what any of the chords are actually called, but I like the way they sound.
The big challenge for me is that once I started doing this, I actually had to learn, and remember, a left-hand part of the tune as well as a right-hand part of the tune. No more HONK-blat! autopilot.
|
|
Txbear
|
6#
|
Rank:none
Posts:85
Registered:23/05/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
|
(Date Posted:08/11/2007 00:34:15)
Reply to : Matthew B
Reply to : skipyskiphireIt's extremely entertaining to try some "cross rowing" (row crossing) with the left hand as well. There are lots of extra chords hidden on the left, and they become more accessible if you use all four fingers. Bass/bass combinations and "wrong" (i.e. non-adjacent) bass/chord combinations can be very interesting. If you have some stops on the left and can drop low notes and thirds the possibilities are even greater, and there are some additional possibilities: chord/chord combinations and bass/bass/bass combinations that work pretty well.Two things helped me a lot when I started thinking about this myself. First, listening to Chris Parkinson's recording of Mr Isaac's Maggott, which has got some very fancy left-hand stuff in it, and which is slow enough and clear enough for me to follow by ear. Second posting a question here about left h
Since I am a one row player (Cajun) the bass world is much simpler, we only have two buttons and four notes, but there are still quite a few complexities to consider. In a solo accordion situation, the bass is universally used, primarily to establish the dance rythmn and to fill out the sound of the solo instrument. When and accordion is part of a band however, things can change a lot. The bass is often dropped while other instruments establish the rythmn (guitar, drums, triangle, or washboard). Often the bass is played as background rythmn or as accompaniment to a singer or a fiddle solo. When playing in second and third position, many times the bass tones are completely wrong for the key of the song, this lends a discordant sound that can actually be quite interesting. Particular ways of using the bass can be part of a player's "signature" sound. I'm sure that is true of just about every tradition.
|
|
skipyskiphire
|
7#
|
Rank:none
Posts:9
From: Great_britain
Registered:03/09/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
|
(Date Posted:08/11/2007 01:07:15)
As an entry point into this adventure with the bass end.............
Oh my............ What have I started here? drones, bass runs, off-beat/syncopated bass lines...... Errmm!!
I can see why those Musicains said "dont worry!" Seriously though, many thanks to you all for all this excellent advice but after reading all this, I must admit, I'm spinning! I can see this box playing taking years to conquer.
Theo, I think I'll start with your advice by playing a scale and simple tune on the Bass only and then write again, along with talking to the Box player in my local session. I do try to watch his fingers on both hands but it doesn't help with him having 23 buttons+three rows in D/G whereas my Morgane is 21 buttons B/C.
Oh, by the way Theo, No problem regarding removing the wristwatch......... I sold that to buy the box!!
Many Thanks again all, keep it coming
Skipy
|
|
Fee
|
8#
|
Registered:28/03/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
|
(Date Posted:08/11/2007 13:59:34)
Reply to : Theo Gibb
And while you're doing it try to use all four fingers of your left hand. You might need to take off your wristwatch and push your hand further through the strap.
Ah, now you see after an Andy Cutting workshop in the spring I already do use all four fingers (why people don't do this as a matter of course is beyond me - now wise after the event as it were - I got much more accurate almost immediately), wrist is firmly pushed through (and I haven't worn a watch for years!) 
|
|
Txbear
|
9#
|
Rank:none
Posts:85
Registered:23/05/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
|
(Date Posted:08/11/2007 21:05:10)
Reply to : Fee
Ah, now you see after an Andy Cutting workshop in the spring I already do use all four fingers (why people don't do this as a matter of course is beyond me - now wise after the event as it were - I got much more accurate almost immediately), wrist is firmly pushed through (and I haven't worn a watch for years!)
Wearing a watch makes my fingers go to sleep, not to mention scratching the box.
|
|
georgegarside
|
10#
|
Registered:19/06/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
|
(Date Posted:08/11/2007 21:29:22)
Reply to : skipyskiphire
As an entry point into this adventure with the bass end.............Oh my............ What have I started here? drones, bass runs, off-beat/syncopated bass lines...... Errmm!!I can see why those Musicains said "dont worry!" Seriously though, manythanks to you all for all this excellent advice butafter reading all this,I must admit,I'mspinning! I can see this box playing taking years to conquer.Theo, I think I'll start with your adviceby playing a scale and simple tuneon the Bass only and thenwrite again,along with talking to the Box player inmy local session. I do try to watch his fingers on both hands but it doesn't help with him having 23 buttons+three rowsin D/G whereas my
I think the playing of simple scale on bass was in respect of Dg box. As you are probably aware a great many BC players do not use the bass at all. Whereas on a DG, CF or whatever box the bass can be used readily to provide both harmony & rhythm it is very difficult to drive a rhythm with the BC bass (unless a much modified bass layout is used) The ryhythm should be in the melody anyway (As per bassless instruments such as flute & fiddle) so the relatively simplest approach if you wish to use BC bass is to use the bass to ornement a treble note here & there. This can be done either by the 'suck & see' method of very slowly playing a tune whilst prodding around on the bass to find a bass note that harmonises with a fairly long treble note - then find another that goes with another & so on. This has the advantage that you programme the brain as to which button & bellows direction on both ends goes together so you can eventualy busk the bass in on any tune. The other way is to learn where every note is on both ends and work out what harmonises with what. many different custom BC bass arrangements mostly using at least some buttons providing same note/chord in both directions. I understand that the Scottish bandleader Fergie McDonald uses a layout providing only major chords same in both directions (maybe these are 3rdless majors!!) but I don't have exact details. You could with 8 bass have majors for say Bflat fcgdaeb giving a bit of accompaniment for the keys of FCGDAE. The other possiblitly which I personally like is the 12 stradella as fitted to some hohner double ray delux models. With standard BC bass I think the emphasis has to be mainly on the treble playing shoving in what you can here you can on the bass - or not bothering with the bass atall.
george
|
|
skipyskiphire
|
11#
|
Rank:none
Posts:9
From: Great_britain
Registered:03/09/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
|
(Date Posted:09/11/2007 11:25:33)
Reply to : georgegarside
I think the playing of simple scale on bass was in respect of Dg box..........
Thanks George, Sound advice, which makes the other Musicians comments that I play with, even more understandable.
I often feel when playing 'treble only' on my box in a session, (cus that's all I can do to date) that any bass would be fairly superficial but as you say it would be good to 'shove a bit of bass in here and there'.
I'll follow your advice and experiment with the Bass, which I am sure can only improve the overall sound, especially I would imagine, when playing solo.
PS. Before all the Pro's jump down our throats for not using Bass big time, I've posted here before and George knows I am only a Novice of 6 months, hence doesn't expect miracles and advises accordingly...... Which is very much appreciated!!
Skipy
|
|
Theo Gibb
|
12#
|
Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
|
(Date Posted:09/11/2007 11:45:13)
Reply to : skipyskiphire
I often feel when playing 'treble only' on my box in a session, (cus that's all I can do to date) that any bass would be fairly superficial but as you say it would be good to 'shove a bit of bass in here and there'
Especially when playing in sessions my feeling is it's good to use the bass sparingly. One box playing a full left hand part is usually sufficient. A session I go to regularly has a piano and a double bass. Melodeon bass is unnecessary int that situation.
|
|
Lester Bailey
|
13#
|
Rank:none
Posts:344
Registered:27/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
|
(Date Posted:09/11/2007 11:46:24)
Reply to : skipyskiphire
PS. Before all the Pro's jump down our throats for not using Bass big time, I've posted here before and George knows I am only a Novice of 6 months, hence doesn't expect miracles and advises accordingly...... Which is very much appreciated!!
Not that I'm a pro but one thing I feel the bulk on melodeon players (sweeping generalisation alert) don't do enough of is varying the bass ie none, drones, runs etc. Um Pah is OK but a bit of variety is better.
|
| Support us |
Just click the links below and your donations will make a difference here. |
|
|
|
georgegarside
|
14#
|
Registered:19/06/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
|
(Date Posted:09/11/2007 12:24:24)
Reply to : Lester Bailey
Not that I'm a pro but one thing I feel the bulk on melodeon players (sweeping generalisation alert) don't do enough of is varying the bass ie none, drones, runs etc. Um Pah is OK but a bit of variety is better.
my last posting applied specifically to the standard bass on BC boxes which have to be treated in a very different way to those on a Dg. As far as the DG goes I agree completely, my personal view being
1. never do the same on the bass for very long
2. the easiest (& I think one of the best) ways of ornementing (less is more) is to stop playing the bass when playing a 'fancy' bit on the treble so that the listener can aactualy hear whats going on in the melody and it is automatically emphasised by a more or less automatic slight inclrease in volume caused by not letting air out of the bass end. I prefer this when doing a fast run on the treble eg in harvest home, rather than playing a drone but of course furthur variation can be carried out by leaving bass off during fast run first time through & 'droning' 2nd time through or whatever.
At the risk of being shot down in flames I think that there is , given the limitations of 8 bass (whatever they are) a tendency in some quarters to worry to much about 'playing the right bass' ( even though a tune may well have no 'right bass' having been written for ,say, a fiddle)with the result that the melody suffers.
george( with tin hat on!)
|
|
tony gibbons
|
15#
|
Rank:none
Posts:36
Registered:14/01/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
|
(Date Posted:10/11/2007 18:06:13)
I've always played the bass end from the very beginning. They were there so I used them and have strived to improve and develope their use ever since. I would recommend anyone to do the same right from the first tune. Miracles do not happen overnight and one has to be patient. listen carefully to waht you are doing and if you have a good sense of harmony then you are lucky. I'm still learning after over 30 years of playing. Many good bits of advice here but I would echo strongly the need to be sensitive, keep everything light, even frugal in use especially when playing with others. The tune comes first, the bass is there to enhance and give harmony. You do not have to use them all the time and we have the capacity to be selective and imaginative but always sensitive to what others are playing. Always be aware of your own volume and never drown out others. Many an enjoyable session has been spoilt by the heavy plod of an insensitive player. If you play at Irish sessions where the accepted way is without basses then play without basses. Many of the older irish players used their basses anyway but sparingly.
|
|
|
