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clivewilliams
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1#
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Rank:none
Posts:65
Registered:28/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:13/06/2007 18:30:17)
Reply to : Polkaholic
Anybody have experience of 4th-button doh on a 21-button box, and if so, any comments?
Well, certainly for D/G English-style players, I've always thought it's a good idea. I very occasionally need to change my fingering to get a high note on the outside row instead (Salmon Tails in the upper octave is just about the only tune I can think of that needs it, maybe also La Bal Marine), and it's not that hard to do when needed since it's usually just a passing note. Other than that, no downside at all, you open up the possibility of having low notes and accidentals - in fact I seem to remember a chap who had a 4th button start and 2 lots of low notes.
Cheers,
Clive
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EeeJay
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2#
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Rank:none
Posts:130
Registered:20/08/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:13/06/2007 22:08:12)
On a similar vein, I recently discovered a few clips on YouTube of Merengue style players from the Dominican Republic and USA.
See here, or here, and follow the links...
As you can see, it seems that a common modification they make to their Hohner Ericas (or Chinese copies) is to shoe horn an extra button on the bottom of the keyboard. I would assume that this alteration is a commonly known (i.e. tried and tested) "tweak" amongst these players.
Now a 22 button Irish box would be a good idea...
Ed J
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georgegarside
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3#
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Registered:19/06/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:13/06/2007 23:42:08)
Reply to : Polkaholic
Mainly of interest to C#D players I suppose. On a 21-button box in the standard 11/10 configuration you have no low G on the D row - which is a serious shortcoming, forcing you to hack many tunes in the fiddle repertoire in an unsatisfactory manner.The usual remedy is to retune the lowest button on the outer row to D/G. The problem with this is that you have to sacrifice a Bb, which although it is far less commonly used than low G, is still a note I would want to have handy. I'd also much rather keep the low G on the D row.So that leaves the possibility of using a 4th-button doh and thereby losing the top button in the D row. Not a great problem because you can still get the high c# on the outer row and I've never encountered a need for the top f#.Anybody have experience of 4th-button doh on a 21-button box, and if so, any comments? Or can anybody see di
I used to have a catagnari lilly DG that I converted to 5th button do by taking out the reeds for the highest button on each row, moving everything else up one button EXEPT FOR THE ACCIDENTALS NEAREST THE CHIN. i then put extra low notes on the 2nd button on each row.
A similar opperation could be done on a 21 button C#D but as there are not the accidental 1st buttons you would have 4th button do. The normal notes on the 1st button on a 23 button C#D would be used and these are D/G on the D row aand C#/F# on the C# row. as well as being very useful notes this setup preserves the logical layout of having the same note always recurring every 4 buttons on the push & every 5 on the pull throughout the box which makes bringing in the same note an octave higher or lower easy.
george
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Martin Ellison
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4#
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Rank:none
Posts:52
Registered:06/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:14/06/2007 02:22:15)
For what it's worth (and it's not C#/D) I always use 4th button doh on my D/Gs. I love the lower registers and find the dusty end less appealing. It's a bit of a stretch (especially on a hohner) when you want to slide from Eb to E and F to F# on the D row but possible. I have no idea how you would manage this on a 5th button doh unless you have hands like shovels - although this also has it's attractions. I've recently acquired a D/G box that has a full octave below the normal G root note and it shakes your boots just to flick it in every now and then. A friend described my low G as a "punctuation" note and he has a point, I love it just the same.
Martin
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Theo Gibb
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5#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain 
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:14/06/2007 10:47:10)
Reply to : EeeJay
to shoe horn an extra button on the bottom of the keyboard. I would assume that this alteration is a commonly known (i.e. tried and tested) "tweak" amongst these players.Now a 22 button Irish box would be a good idea...Ed J
I'd like to see what the extra button does. I have a suspicion that it might not be playing an extra reed, but is just linked to one of the higher buttons to help avoid some of the big jumps you often need to use the accidentals on the lower buttons.
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EeeJay
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6#
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Rank:none
Posts:130
Registered:20/08/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:14/06/2007 12:01:03)
Reply to : Theo Gibb
I'd like to see what the extra button does. I have a suspicion that it might not be playing an extra reed, but is just linked to one of the higher buttons to help avoid some of the big jumps you often need to use the accidentals on the lower buttons.
Could be Theo, could be... it might be worth shooting an e-mail off to these guys to find out...
I also notice from the Tex Mex accordion scene that some of their repairers have managed to shunt an extra note (or three) into the end of a Hohner Corona.
However, there's a heck of a lot more room inside a Corona...!
Ed J
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georgegarside
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7#
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Registered:19/06/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:14/06/2007 12:16:24)
Reply to : Martin Ellison
. It's a bit of a stretch (especially on a hohner)whenyou want to slide from Eb to E and F to F# on the D row but possible. I have no idea how you would manage this on a 5th button doh unless you have hands likeshovels- although this also has it's attractions.
not having handy hands like shovels I use my thumb to play the accidentals on either row. Once practiced it works very well particularly on tunes like the quariman in D where G# crops up fairly regularly. Doing it this way a 5th button do is not a problem. Essential to use two straps so that thumb isnt required to locate/support keyboard.
george
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Malodeon
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8#
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Rank:none
Posts:39
Registered:28/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:14/06/2007 13:43:45)
With regards to the stretch to the G# I have been learning Waterloo Dance and the G#?s in the second part have proved to be the most difficult thing I have so far tried. Is it just me or have the rest of you found this difficult. The rest of the players at our little session, concertina, fiddle etc. have all knocked it off in no time and I an struggling to play it with the basses at anything but a crawl.ffice ffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Any thoughts on this?
malc
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Polkaholic
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9#
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Rank:none
Posts:316
Registered:18/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:14/06/2007 15:11:47)
Reply to : Malodeon
With regards to the stretch to the G# I have been learning Waterloo Dance and the G#?s in the second part have proved to be the most difficult thing I have so far tried.
Probably not what you want to hear, but on a C#/D accidentals like that are always easy because they are one button away from the unsharpened (or unflattened) note. In practical terms half-step boxes may fall short of being truly chromatic, but getting a few weird notes is a breeze.
Thanks for the replies everyone. On a 21-button D/G box with a 4th-button doh, you'd have exactly the same D row as on a 23-button C#/D (11 buttons on the D row in both cases), so obviously this setup makes perfect sense to me. But on a 21-button C#/D, you have a 10-button D row, so a 4th-button doh would result in a lot more use of the farthest button of the keyboard (knee end). I suppose George's 5th-button doh on a D/G would do the same, but if any C#/D merchants have tried a 4th-button doh, I'd like to hear from you.
I can't for the life of me understand why people making boxes for the Irish market don't put the longer row on the inside. The few who do seem only to do it on 23-button boxes, where the extra notes aren't very useful, whereas on a 21-button, they would be, making for a more compact instrument.
Steve
Edited to remove accidentals (out of place words) :-)
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