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georgegarside
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1#
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Registered:19/06/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:01/02/2007 00:34:55)
Reply to : lars_jakabov
. So I sold it to explore C#/D. No succes. Back to B/C for me.So now I wonder... Would it be worth it to have the low set of reeds switched with a set of M tuned to -15 to make it a (-15 , 0 , +15) musette? Still playing it one and two voice in my band and for session, but doing 3-voice
for what its worth on my 4 voice paolo soprani BCC# with 9 treble couplers I very rarely use the 2 voice musette because it has 3 voice musette available which is much brighter sounding.(some would say wetter). Of course I still have the option of bringing in the low set of reeds when required.
On the other hand my 3 voice DG Serenellini has only the option of 2 voice musette or that plus the low set of reads. I would not want to alter this to 3 voice musette as I use the low reeds where the character of the tune suits them e.g. on some waltzes, Scottish 2 steps etc and also sometimes change from 3 to 2 in mis tune to bring about a bit of variation.
To complicate the matter even furthur my BCC# Casali has 3 voice musette and no couplers or low reeds & I use this box a great deal using perhaps more right hand chords to thicken the sound up a bit.
On balance I feel that its more a question of getting the best out of the box you are playing at the time than worrying too much about major tuning alterations which can sometimes unbalance the whole setup. Perhaps better to buy a different box that you can actually try to see if a particular reed arrangemt better suits you - alterations can cost just as much to have undone!
george
george
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lars_jakabov
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2#
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Rank:none
Posts:52
Registered:02/12/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:01/02/2007 00:46:20)
Point is:
I had the MMM soprani. I LOVED the sound. Hated the box.
I HAVE the saltarelle. Love the box, misses the sound.
I mean it when I say that I never use the low reed. But I'm not sure if the box will carry the sound well - you don't see many saltarelles with MMM out there, do you? I've never...
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Polkaholic
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3#
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Rank:none
Posts:316
Registered:18/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:01/02/2007 15:11:42)
What George says makes good sense, but if MMM is really what you want then go for it - the box can handle it. MMM Nuages are out there - Mary Rafferty plays one (I'm pretty sure), and John Williams plays an MMM Connemara III, and they both have big fat sounds!
I have MMM on my Serenellini, which is a very similar box to your Nuage. This setup certainly packs a punch, especially in the hands of players more forceful than me. (I'm not interested in being very loud in a session - accordions that smother other instruments being "an abomination in my sight" or rather, hearing.)
BTW did you sell your Paolo to a lady in Vermont, USA? If so, I saw it a few months ago and had a wee go on it!
Steve
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lars_jakabov
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4#
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Rank:none
Posts:52
Registered:02/12/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:02/02/2007 13:15:45)
I did in fact sell it to a lady, Hilari. I'm sure what state she lives in, but it's somewhere around that area. One of the best sounding paolos I've tried, but I just could not get used to playing it...
What amount of tremolo do you and the mentioned celebs have on their MMM's?
And does anyone know what it could cost to make the switch?
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Theo Gibb
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5#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain 
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:02/02/2007 16:50:01)
Reply to : lars_jakabov
What amount of tremolo do you and the mentioned celebs have on their MMM's?
Three MMM reeds are frequently tuned with different degrees of offset for the sharp and the flat reeds. For example instead of -15 0 +15 you might have something like -8 0 +15. This gives a more complex, thicker sound becuase there are now in effect three different interactions -8 to 0, 0 to 15, and -8 to 15 so you get a very complex series of harmonics where you would be hard put to identify a single beat as you can easily do with two reeds.
And does anyone know what it could cost to make the switch?
You would need 23 new reeds, and the reedblocks would require modification to reduce the size of the reed chambers to match the lower reeds, and then the tuning would need to be set to your requirements. I've not done this particular operation before, but I would estimate it to cost between 150 and 180 UK pounds.
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Polkaholic
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6#
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Rank:none
Posts:316
Registered:18/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/02/2007 19:42:21)
Yes, Hilari. She told me she'd bought it from a guy in Denmark so I thought there was a good chance it must have been you! She hadn't had it for long when I saw it but she seemed delighted with it. Her husband is an instrument maker and is planning to make a new grille for the instrument similar to those on the famous "old grey" Paolos.
I don't know what kind of tremolo the people I mentioned use - much less than what you are contemplating though, I'm fairly sure. I've thought of a couple of other MMM Nuagers - Jackie Daly (who plays a 12-bass model specially made for him) and Mairtin O Connor.
I ordered mine from the factory tuned "tremolo americano" but it was too wet for me so I had it "dried out" locally. The scheme was as Theo described, not equidistant, and the new one is the same, just narrower. I don't know what it is in cents at any point in the scale, but the tuner described it as 440, 440 minus "a hair", and 440 plus two hairs, and I am very happy with it.
I wonder whether the reed blocks would need modification. Although mine are MMM, one voice has room for bassoon reeds and the gaps are filled in with was.
Steve
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Theo Gibb
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7#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:03/02/2007 22:46:32)
Reply to : Polkaholic
I wonder whether the reed blocks would need modification. Although mine are MMM, one voice has room for bassoon reeds and the gaps are filled in with was(wax).
Steve
The reed chambers might also need to be made shallower, but that is all the modification I had in mind, though I prefer to fill up the extra space with wood, held inplace with wax, so its possible to go back to LMM.
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lars_jakabov
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8#
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Rank:none
Posts:52
Registered:02/12/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/02/2007 20:42:19)
I think I'll go for it, with the -8, 0, +15 configuration. A bigger louder sound, but not too screaming.
Theo: I've got at box or two to sell first, but then I'll be interested in having it done. Would you take on the job?
//Lars
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Theo Gibb
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9#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:04/02/2007 21:05:03)
Certainly, lets discuss the details off list and you can report back to the community later with your conclusions on the completed conversion.
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lars_jakabov
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10#
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Rank:none
Posts:52
Registered:02/12/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:28/02/2007 23:24:18)
The job has been done - and the box sounds great! A very nice full, rich sound! Great for those rousing A-minor reels and blasting polkas 
I can recommend this conversion to all who plays LMM, but prefers the sound of the oldfashioned MMM.
The -8,0,+15 is a very nice sound, not too screamy.
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Longeireann
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11#
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Rank:none
Posts:4
Registered:23/06/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:23/06/2007 00:49:45)
Reply to : lars_jakabov
The job has been done - and the box sounds great! A very nice full, rich sound! Great for those rousing A-minor reels and blasting polkasI can recommend this conversion to all who plays LMM, but prefers the sound of the oldfashioned MMM.The -8,0,+15 is a very nice sound, not too screamy.
Theo, you once mentioned tuning by beats rather than a uniform cent specification, due to the way the tones change up and down the scale. Out of curiosity, is this how you treated this particular box? If so, was it a smaller spread at the bottom and a larger spread at the top of the scale or vice versa? thanks-
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Theo Gibb
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12#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:23/06/2007 21:03:04)
If reed banks are tuned with a constant difference, measured in Hz or cents, across all notes then the beat rate doubles each octave as you go up the scale. I don't recall now exactly how I did this one, but I usually use somewhat less difference up the scale. I usually reduce the cents difference as I work up the scale. I don't usually do this by a measured amount, and not by enough to keep a constant beat rate. Its quite a subjective thing really, I just tune it to what sounds right!
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Txbear
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13#
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Rank:none
Posts:85
Registered:23/05/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:02/08/2007 01:31:52)
I am of the opinion that in most cases you are better off finding another accordion, or even having one built to your specs than to try and modify a box. Repairs are one thing and sometimes switching out sets of reed block can work (I know someone who regularly changes a F/Bb/Eb Corona back and forth from G/C/F), but isn't it better to not try and make one accordion do the work of several?
By the way, what is it about Paolo Soprani accordions that you can't get used to? Everybody seems to want Paolo bass layouts on their box for Irish music. I have a two row F/Bb, stepped keyboard, three voice, eight bass box that I love. The key action is especially nice, firm but not too firm, quick and responsive, and the tone is fabulous. It can play soft and sweet or really bang it out. Works great for Zydeco, some things like Cumbia, even Blues. My only comment is that the basses can be a bit loud at times, especially when playing the treble side softly.
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lars_jakabov
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14#
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Rank:none
Posts:52
Registered:02/12/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:15/08/2007 01:39:43)
The thing about the Paolo I could not get used to was the fact that it did not have a thumb groove, thus making the treble side a lot more bulgy to play.
I don't think it's a problem changing reeds and modifying boxes is a problem - the saltarelle plays better than it ever did before. I was a bit concerned that the new set of middle reeds would be a bit week, but they are as loud as one could have hoped for.
Bad thing is now that I have to sell the box due to financial needs...
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Txbear
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15#
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Rank:none
Posts:85
Registered:23/05/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:20/08/2007 00:21:09)
Wow, no thumb groove on your Paolo? My two row Paolo Soprani has a very nice thumb groove. That's one thing I like about it.
John in Austin
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