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Sutors
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1#
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Rank:none
Posts:12
Registered:29/06/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:23/07/2007 22:16:21)
Hey; I just purchased an old (50 years atleast) Paolo Soprani from an old Irish couple. I play (began learning) on a junky Chinese box and picked this up partly because it was simply a great antique with a case that showed alot of history (stickers from France, Germany, Italy, etc) and thought I may be able to fix it up. As I play on it...the bellows leak and one or two notes are slightly out of tune (I mean very very slightly, almost un-noticeable). The instrument plays and won't cause pain to those who listen...infact I think it sounds great and just needs some leakfixing.
I took it to an accordion shop and I was told I might as well buy a new accordion (I knew this risk when I bought it...it was cheap) for new bellows would be $700, tuning/cleaning/retuning $700, new bellow straps/buttons $50, new brackets for the straps $75, and the list just went on. Now alot of pro accordion players would probably laugh at this instrument, but it looks in great condition and the action of the buttons is all great. It leaks from where the bellows and sides of the accordion connect...I don't think the bellows leak.. There are a few things I know I can do to put this instrument in shape. Any tips of how I can boost the performance of the instrument (which really isn't horrible). I know there are some spots where felt can be replaced and I see a few leathers are missing. Has anyone hand replaced these themselves? I've done it to harmonicas. What do you all think?
-Sean
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georgegarside
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2#
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Registered:19/06/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:23/07/2007 23:21:55)
Reply to : Sutors
Hey; I just purchased an old (50 years atleast) Paolo Soprani from an old Irish couple. I play (began learning) on a junky Chinese box and picked this up partly because it was simply a great antique with a case that showed alot of history (stickers from France, Germany, Italy, etc) and thought I may be able to fix it up. As I play on it...the bellows leak and one or two notes are slightly out of tune (I mean very very slightly, almost un-noticeable). The instrument plays and won't cause pain to those who listen...infact I think it sounds great and just needs some leakfixing.I took it to an accordion shop and I was told I might as well buy a new accordion (I knew this risk when I bought it...it was cheap) for new bellows would be $700, tuning/cleaning/retuning $700, new bellow straps/buttons $50, new brackets for the straps $75, and the list just went on. Now alot of pro
Presumably its either red or grey 2 or 4 voice 8 bass tuned in BC#. The grey ones are very sought after so if it is grey its well worth sorting properly .The older red ones are pretty good too but not as valuable as the grey ones. If its a wooden Paulo Soprani its probably pre war & again well worth sorting.
leathers are readily obtainable from accordion dealers/repairers and easy to replace. By 'felts' I assume you mean the felt pad on the pallet opperated by the buttons, again some thin felt will do the trick. Leaks from where the bellows join the ends of the box are usually caused by failure of the ? rubber gasket . dions should be fairly easy to obtain. try to get the proper stuff rather than using foam draft excluder !
george
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Sutors
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3#
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Rank:none
Posts:12
Registered:29/06/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:23/07/2007 23:48:34)
It's a red 4 voice and you're right about all of that...sorry for the vagueness. My father, once a music teacher, has much skill in instrument repair and is the ultimate handy man. With some thin felt, leathers and basically a bellow repair kit or new supplies (it is the rubber leaking), you think it can be done at home? The one thing I must determine is if it needs to be fixed inside or out (around the rubber joining the cellulite body and the bellows). Maybe the rubber just needs replacing? Thanks,
-Sean
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georgegarside
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4#
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Registered:19/06/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:24/07/2007 00:02:08)
Reply to : Sutors
It's a red 4 voice and you're right about all of that...sorry for the vagueness. My father, once a music teacher, has much skill in instrument repair and is the ultimate handy man. With some thin felt, leathers and basically a bellow repair kit or new supplies (it is the rubber leaking), you think it can be done at home? The one thing I must determine is if it needs to be fixed inside or out (around the rubber joining the cellulite body and the bellows). Maybe the rubber just needs replacing? Thanks,-Sean
the ends are attached to the bellows by 4 or 6 pins (each end) pull these out with a pair of pincers or pliars and gently pull the bellows off the ends or the ends off the bellows!. You will then be able to inspect the gasket. It is always best to replace the gasket and whilse doing one end you might as well do the other
george
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C age ing
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5#
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Registered:20/08/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:24/07/2007 07:30:25)
CGM Musical Services can supply all the bits needed, often on UK ebay. If not google them.
Theo at The Box Place might also be willing to supply.
Enjoy
Bill.
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Theo Gibb
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6#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain 
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:24/07/2007 11:55:41)
Hi Sean
You are very fortunate to have acquired that instrument. It should give you a lot of fun.
When it comes to repairs I'll offer some advice from my point of view as a melodeon repairer.
You have a valuable instrument there. In Ireland your instrument in good condition would probably be worth between 1000 and 1500 UK pounds. Its does sound as if it needs some attention, but take care. Unless you are an experienced repairer it is possible to make things worse rather than better.
I think you should start by replacing the bellows gasket. This is quite a simple job, and George has already explained how to separate the bellows from the ends which you need to do to gain access to the gaskets. Gasket material on you instrument would originally have been a strip of soft leather. You might be able to get it more airtight by stroking the leather gasket with a screwdriver blade to raise the nap. If this does not work then you need a new gasket. Gasket material comes as a strip of closed cell synthetic foam, and is easy to fit after carefully removing the old and scraping away the remains of glue.
Missing leather valves are simple enough to replace, but note that the smallest reeds should not have valves. If you feel the reeds or their leather valves all need replacing then please please don't try it yourself. You may see leather valves that are curled up instead of lying flat, but what is harder to see is there is another set of valves underneath the reedplates. If the outer ones need replacing the inner ones will too and to do that is a much bigger job.
Felt pads - if you mean the flaps that lift when you press the buttons then attention to these is not quite as simple as it seems. If you just put new facing material on them you are likely to alter the geometry of the levers which will change the button height, and can make for more air leaks rather than less.
So if it plays reasonably well once you have fixed the major air leaks then don't try to do too much else. In the long run it will be worth finding a good repairer who understands button boxes.
The accordion shop you took it to sound as if they aren't knowledgeable about button key instruments. And the repair costs sound very high.
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Sutors
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7#
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Rank:none
Posts:12
Registered:29/06/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:24/07/2007 18:41:42)
The good thing about going to the repair shop is the repairman explained everything and I now know how to carefully disassemble my accordion where the work needs to be done. If I order new gasket material, how do I know if it's the right size? Is it all in one size?
The man I worked with was clearly educated, but seemed to do work on almost always piano accordions and therefor may not be the man I'm looking for. He stated that new bellows would need to be custom ordered and since they had to buy euros, it might come out to $700. Cleaning (removal of rust)and tuning would come out to $700 as well. ...screwing on a new shoulder strap bracket...$75?! Give me the bracket, I'd have done it right there. I've gotta talk to someone who repairs button boxes and see what they think the prices come out to. Theo, do you know where I may be able to find the appropriate gasket and leathers if necessary? Thanks for all the help. I'll post a good recording once I patch it up
-Sean
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Theo Gibb
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8#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:24/07/2007 20:43:31)
I don't know what it is about some piano accordion techs, they seem to think button accordions are the work of the devil! Of course we know its the other way round.
Most accordions are hapy with the same size of gasket material. I think the stuff I use is about 4mm x 2mm, the width is not critical, as long as its not too wide which would be unsightly. The thickness must be sufficient to take up the space. You could use two layers if one is not sufficient.
Your accordion man is right that bellows have to be custom made and would come from Italy, but $700 seems excessive. And $75 for a bracket!! I sell a variety of brackets for 4.50 sterling per pair. I can send stuff to the USA if you can't find a local supply. Click the link for "The Box Place" under my name for details. I have gasket too and valves.
What part o fthe USA are you in. The best place over there seems to be "The Button Box" in Amhurst MA.
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-risto-
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9#
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Rank:none
Posts:185
Registered:23/02/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:24/07/2007 20:58:09)
Sean,
if German made bellows do for you, I was given the price of about 150 euros (incl. German VAT which you wouldn't have to pay) from a factory in Klingenthal for Hohner Erika. I don't know what it does to the value of your Paolo Soprani or how much it would cost to make an almost identical copy of the original ones (if they do such) but at least they would be new. If you are interesed drop me a message and I'll find the email address.
/Risto
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Sutors
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10#
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Rank:none
Posts:12
Registered:29/06/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:24/07/2007 21:20:55)
Risto: shoot me the email address just to keep my options open. If I got new bellows I'd probably go with those from Italy but we'll see.
Theo: Yeah, $75 to put on a bracket is just senseless... I'm in New Jersey, so MA is not a far shipment at all. I just gave the Button Box an email asking if they had fitting gasket, brackets, and maybe leathers (just incase). If he's got nothing then I'll probably be messaging you here.
Thanks for both your responces,
-Sean
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-risto-
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11#
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Rank:none
Posts:185
Registered:23/02/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:24/07/2007 22:42:39)
Sean, I sent you the information as a private message. I haven't done that often so I hope it worked out.
/Risto
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