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Dazbo
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1#
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Registered:08/08/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/04/2007 17:53:42)
Reply to : pitleyfalley
Heya,Fairly new to the forums and was wondering if I could get some advice. Ive been playing the melodeon for about a year now, and started with by playing my housemates D/G Scarlatti which was bought new off Hobgoblin Music, but has never really broken in at all, the bellows are still very very tight. Since then ive borrowed an old (probably about 20 years old now) Hohner Pokerwork as its a nice loud instrument and I play with a couple of morris sides. The Pokerwork is fantastic by comparison, the bellows are nice and loose and the instrument is a lot louder. The only thing I dont like with it is the wet tuning.Determined to get something useful out of my degree im planning on spending the next student loan installment on a new box, as its looking like the Pokwerworks going to have to go back to its rightful owner and the Scarlatti is a nightmare to play.
Traction talk looks like fun
Well for that money you've got two basic choices. Try and get a high end box (Castagnari, Saltarelle etc) second or third hand or a mid-range model brand new.
Personally I'd try and get a second hand box but that can be a bit pot luck whether there's anything available.
New boxes at that price range: Baffetti (Black Pearl 2 or 3) or Saltarelle (la bouebe). There's also the bottom of the range Castagnaris especially the Lilly (single voice) or the equivalent Saltarelle or Loffet. I think I'd probably opt for a Baffetti in your circumstances although the single voice boxes do have their charms . Personnally I'd be tempted by a Giustozzi as I'm so pleased with their organetto but this is untried territory.
But, and this is essential, try and get your hands on as many boxes as you can and see what take your fancy before taking the plunge. (if you can wait to the summer the big festivals like Sidmouth and Towersey are good for this - lots of examples to try out.
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Steve_freereeder
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2#
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Rank:none
Posts:405
Registered:01/07/2004
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(Date Posted:04/04/2007 19:57:14)
If you like the Pokerworks, you could always get one new or second-hand and get it dry-tuned. Perhaps swing-tuned rather than arid would be best, especially if you are going to play for morris. Theo Gibb of this forum would be able to advise you on tuning and costs. He is also good at reducing the buttons/pallets clatter for which Pokerworks are renowned. Even with retuning, you are talking of much less than ?000.
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Jo Ellis Boyfriend
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3#
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Rank:none
Posts:223
Registered:19/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/04/2007 20:02:18)
Reply to : pitleyfalley
Hohner Pokerwork as its a nice loud instrument and I play with a couple of morris sides. The Pokerwork is fantastic by comparison, the bellows are nice and loose and the instrument is a lot louder. The only thing I dont like with it is the wet tuning.Determined to get something useful out of my degree im planning on spending the next student loan installment on a new box, as its looking like the Pokwerworks going to have to go back to its rightful owner and the Scarlatti is a nightmare to play.
Pokerworks are great instruments, but for a grand you can get much better. I also think a Dino Baffetti Black Pearl 2 suits the requirements perfectly, as would a Saltarelle Le Boube or a base model castagnari (studio etc.) I think 750. I know the person who's just cancelled their order on it. Gabanellis are supposed to be good boxes, although I've never played one. Rees Wesson has one on his site- www.melodeons.com. The new hohners that are coming in at ?95 are supposed to be good too, although, I've not heard much about them either.
Try to get to a music shop, the music room, hobgoblin etc,and festivals to play as many boxes as you can. You may not get the box you want dry tuned off the shelf, but if you spent about ?50 on an instrument, you'd definiteley have enough spare cash to have the instrument dry tuned.
Hope this helps
Pip
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EeeJay
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4#
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Rank:none
Posts:130
Registered:20/08/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/04/2007 23:37:16)
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-risto-
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5#
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Rank:none
Posts:185
Registered:23/02/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/04/2007 00:28:22)
Does anyone know what the latest Klingenthal boxes are like? When I orderded reeds from them I learned that they manufacture B/C boxes.
/Risto
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Theo Gibb
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6#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain 
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:05/04/2007 01:20:17)
Hi Chris
Getting a Hohner tuned drier is definitely an option. The tuning work shouldn't cost more than about ?0.
If you find a new box in the upper half of your price range any decent shop should alter the tuning to your requirements at no extra cost.
Lots of good advice has already been given. The most important thing of all is to NOT buy without trying the box first, not just the model you want but the actual box. They can vary even between different examples of the same make.
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Martin Ellison
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7#
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Rank:none
Posts:52
Registered:06/07/2004
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(Date Posted:05/04/2007 03:28:47)
Greetings Chris
Having just bought a Loffet 2 + 1/2 row, 12 bass for a little over ?200 and found it to be a delightful investment I have to recommend a LOFFET.
For what it's worth, I'd like to suggest that you won't get better for your money than a Loffet. I'd like to try some of Bernard's other boxes - I've spoken to someone who has had a Loffet for some time and assures me that it's the best box he's played. I have to agree.
Better reeds than a Saltarelle; build quality second to none - unfussy but stylish. Of course some people prefer Hohners/Saltarelles/Castagnaris - you have to find what suits you, it's not all about price. Have I just contradicted myself?
Martin
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C age ing
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8#
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Registered:20/08/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/04/2007 09:05:22)
Chris,
Have a word with Theo at The Box Place. He did a very nice secondhand dryish DG Pokerwerk for Morris for me and you'd still have enough left the Union bar.
An alternative is one of his Erikas or Clubs. Even with new reeds, tuned how YOU want it, with whatever keyboard layout you desire, there will be plenty left for serious student shenanigans. Very happy with mine and it is different.
Bill.
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pitleyfalley
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9#
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Registered:09/09/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:07/04/2007 02:43:31)
Thanks for all the feedback guys. I think ill probably have to go and spend a bit longer in hobgoblin and the music room and as people are suggesting, try out a few different instruments. Some makes there I hadnt even heard of so will also have to do a little bit more research into it all.
Getting a Hohner tuned drier is definitely an option. The tuning work shouldn't cost more than about ?0.
If you find a new box in the upper half of your price range any decent shop should alter the tuning to your requirements at no extra cost.
Thats certainly an option at the moment, the chap who im borrowing the pokerwork off of doesnt actualy play melodeon any more, he got it as it was ?0 at the time and he thought he might take it up one day instead of the accordion, he's reasonably keen on the idea of a swap for the scarlatti, which could get the pokerwork at the cost of a few pints, ?0 or so retuning would then also leave enough to get a new box, one 'good' one and the pokerwork for druken morris pub crawls. One of our melodeon players was in a state of severe agitation the other night when his Castagnari got hit by a flying stick and some of the wooden fretwork broken, hence slight trepidation at the thought of taking something out thats too expensive!
In my opinion, the best bang for your buck at the moment is the Serenellini Sell? Choice of stepped closed or flat closed keyboard - this is a very useful refinement on an entry/mid range box, and feels much more solid. The build quality is spotless.
I had a go on one of these the other day and was very impressed with it, as you say it felt a very well made box, its certainly making its way onto the short list.
Thanks again for all the feedback, I think the next plan is to go and try as many boxes as possible and see what jumps off the shelf as it were.
Cheers
Chris
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georgegarside
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10#
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Registered:19/06/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:07/04/2007 14:00:59)
Reply to : pitleyfalley
Thanks for all the feedback guys. I think ill probably have to go and spend a bit longer in hobgoblin and the music room and as people are suggesting, try out a few different instruments. Some makes there I hadnt even heard of so will also have to do a little bit more research into it all.Getting a Hohner tuned drier is definitely an option. The tuning work shouldn't cost more than about ?0.If you find a new box in the upper half of your price range any decent shop should alter the tuning to your requirements at no extra cost.Thats certainly an option at the moment, the chap who im borrowing the pokerwork off of doesnt actualy play melodeon any more, he got it as it was ?0 at the time and he thought he might take it up one day instead of the accordion, he's reasonably keen on the idea of a swap for the scarlatti, which could get the pokerwork at the
have you thought about the serenallini salterello - list about ?99 but on offer here & there for much less. I've had one for about 7 years & its absolutely reliable and plays very nicely. A good buy if you consider 3 voice LMM to be worth having. Mine has quite a reasonable amount of tremelo (wetness for those who prefer a description better reserved for farts) but they may be available with less or of course can be retuned. I think hobgob stock them & eagle music list them but may not stock them.
george
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pitleyfalley
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11#
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Registered:09/09/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:07/04/2007 18:48:35)
The Salterello is certainly on the short list aswell at the moment. Hobgoblin have them for ?000 but ive seen them elsewhere for about ?50 upwards. I did have a quick go on one last time I was in Hobgoblin in Birmingham, I also looked at the Selli, the stops on the Salterello could come in useful methinks.
Chris
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mistermacky
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12#
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Rank:none
Posts:50
Registered:30/12/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:15/04/2007 16:06:42)
Hi Chris, I thought I'd add my twopennyworth.
There's a seventies song that goes ' if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with'.
If you like the Hohner, you're most of the way there. If you can get it tuned drier, for a reasonable amount, you should end up with a nice box. And being in good tune, and drier, it would be worth a bit more and easier to sell, if you later decide to trade up, so it's not wasted money.
Best of luck, Kev.
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Martin Ellison
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13#
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Rank:none
Posts:52
Registered:06/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:15/04/2007 17:18:07)
Now a little way on from my Loffet ravings - another thought . . .
I've just received a reconditioned Hohner Pokerwork in C/F from Theo Gibb at The Box Place and I cannot sing it's praises (and therefore, Theo's) enough.
I haven't played a 2 row hohner pokerwork for probably 18-20 years and had forgotten not only how much fun they are and what a glorious sound they make but, something some of us overlook (or is it just me?), is that they are a professional instrument. Of course they have their faults but they are more forgiving of your faults than a Costalotti Armanaleggi. I'm loving it.
Now if we could all play in C/F in sessions and dump D/G I'd be a happy man.
Martin
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Dazbo
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14#
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Registered:08/08/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:15/04/2007 17:34:20)
Reply to : Martin Ellison
Now if we could all play in C/Fin sessions and dump D/GI'd be a happy man.Martin
I think CF boxes in general (not that I've heard or played many) seem to all sound lovely to my ears. Amazing what a difference a tone lower makes.
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andrew_w
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15#
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Rank:none
Posts:143
Registered:02/04/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:15/04/2007 18:16:46)
Reply to : Dazbo
Reply to : Martin EllisonNow if we could all play in C/Fin sessions and dump D/GI'd be a happy man.Martin
I think CF boxes in general (not that I've heard or played many) seem to all sound lovely to my ears. Amazing what a difference a tone lower makes.
Oh, I think I can always be relied on to lower the tone on my D/G box :-D
Actually, I think the greatest resistance would be from fiddle players; C/F boxes are nice. As is my C one row, but all the fiddle players who go on about their instrument being chromatic can't seem to cope.
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JD_55
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16#
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Rank:none
Posts:50
Registered:11/07/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:15/04/2007 19:08:20)
Reply to : andrew_w
Oh, I think I can always be relied on to lower the tone on my D/G box :-DActually, I think the greatest resistance would be from fiddle players; C/F boxes are nice. As is my C one row, but all the fiddle players who go on about their instrument being chromatic can't seem to cope.
I do know a couple of fiddle players who claim that the keys of C, F and Bb play well on the instrument. But then I also know quite a few who don't. Perhaps the fiddle players could tune down from GDAE to FCGD to match the CF box players.
Which prompts the old question of why G and D are so popular when pre-1950 melodeons were all in CF. Did melodeon and fiddle players not play together before then??
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georgegarside
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17#
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Registered:19/06/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:15/04/2007 19:58:17)
Reply to : Dazbo
Reply to : Martin EllisonNow if we could all play in C/Fin sessions and dump D/GI'd be a happy man.MartinI think CF boxes in general (not that I've heard or played many) seem to all sound lovely to my ears. Amazing what a difference a tone lower makes.
its all part of the ageing process - normally healthy hearing always loses its capacity to pick up the higher pitched sounds first which is why C & F sound much richer to many of us!!!
george
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Martin Ellison
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18#
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Rank:none
Posts:52
Registered:06/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:15/04/2007 20:35:53)
Reply to : georgegarside
its all part of the ageing process - normally healthy hearing always loses its capacity to pick up the higher pitched sounds first which is why C & F sound much richer to many of us!!!george
George - you've cut me to the quick, I'm barely out of my infancy (according to my wife).
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Erics owner
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19#
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Rank:none
Posts:17
Registered:24/04/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:18/04/2007 13:45:10)
Hello Melnetters
I was just reading this thread with some curiosity as I am also thinking about getting a new box and would like to hear your opinion. I have been playing for morris and sessions for over a year now on an Erica. My Erica has been a great box to learn on but I'm wanting a box now with a little extra something about it. In particular I would like to be able to take the 3rd out of my basses. The problem is I think I'll find the majority of boxes to heavy to play standing for long periods of time. I'm not wanting to down size to a lily and have played a Dino but was not too keen on it. Is my only real option a Tommy? Any other suggestions? Or is it a case that I may find a bigger box heavy to start with but would eventually get use to it?
Lou
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Theo Gibb
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20#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:18/04/2007 15:53:39)
Why a Tommy? It is a three voice box and so will be heavier. Its also a bit of a quart trying to fit in a pint pot in my opinion, I don't liek the sound they make, especially teh vbass.
Have you considered a Saltarelle Le Bouebe, Castagnari Studio, or Loffet Toutpit? All two voice boxes, and not much difference in weight from the Hohner. Le Bouebe is certainly made with a stop for the thirds, not sure about the others.
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Polkaholic
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21#
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Rank:none
Posts:316
Registered:18/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:18/04/2007 17:04:34)
Reply to : Theo Gibb
... or Loffet Toutpit? All two voice boxes...
I think you mean "Le Petit", Theo. The "Toutptit" is a one-voice job (at least according to his website:
http://diato.org/diff_mod.htm#petit )
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Theo Gibb
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22#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:18/04/2007 17:12:03)
Sorry, my mistake.
There is also the Gabanelli that Rees Wesson sells.
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Erics owner
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23#
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Rank:none
Posts:17
Registered:24/04/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:18/04/2007 18:34:55)
Reply to : Theo Gibb
Hello Theo
We meet at the Mendlesham day but you probably wont remember me. Me and my friend Cathy were enjoying playing with your Hohner one rows at lunch.
Why a Tommy?
I've tried a Tommy a few times and have liked the feel of it. The weight of it was ok if I remember rightly. I'm not wanting to make myself out to be a puny female I have youth and stupidity on my side so can always start body building or something to be able to play a big box. Cheers for your suggestions I will have to have a go with a Loffet I don't believe I've ever tried one. I suppose I'll have to keep a look out on stalls at festivals this summer and see what tempts me.
Lou
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Pushpull
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24#
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Rank:none
Posts:265
Registered:08/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:18/04/2007 18:37:24)
Reply to : Theo Gibb
Why a Tommy? It is a three voice box and so will be heavier. Its also a bit of a quart trying to fit in a pint pot in my opinion, I don't liek the sound they make, especially teh vbass.
Ooh, Heresy!!
As a Tommy player I do have to accept Theo, that the basses are a bit, mmm, "compromised" by the reed sharing. It is however very light for a 3 voice box and I like the smaller size too.
A newer box which was discussed by a few here recently is the Saltarelle L'Elfique. Again, it's 3 voice but it is reasonably light and compact and it does have a stop for the thirds. I tried one and want one (but it won't replace Tommy in my affections, so there).
Roy.
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Erics owner
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25#
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Rank:none
Posts:17
Registered:24/04/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:18/04/2007 18:44:03)
Reply to : Pushpull
Ooh, Heresy!!As a Tommy player I do have to accept Theo, that the basses are a bit, mmm, "compromised" by the reed sharing. It is however very light for a 3 voice box and I like the smaller size too.A newer box which was discussed by a few here recently is the Saltarelle L'Elfique. Again, it's 3 voice but it is reasonably light and compact and it does have a stop for the thirds. I tried one and want one (but it won't replace Tommy in my affections, so there).Roy.
I've tried a L'Elfique and liked it but I've heard mixed things about Saltarelle's so that puts me off a bit. Hmm life's so full of complicated decisions. Can you explain a bit more about what you mean by the basses are "compromised" on a Tommy?
Lou
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-risto-
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26#
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Rank:none
Posts:185
Registered:23/02/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:18/04/2007 18:44:32)
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Theo Gibb
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27#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:18/04/2007 18:55:28)
Reply to : Pushpull
Ooh, Heresy!!As a Tommy player I do have to accept Theo, that the basses are a bit, mmm, "compromised" by the reed sharing. It is however very light for a 3 voice box and I like the smaller size too.A newer box which was discussed by a few here recently is the Saltarelle L'Elfique. Again, it's 3 voice but it is reasonably light and compact and it does have a stop for the thirds. I tried one and want one (but it won't replace Tommy in my affections, so there).Roy.
This is just a personal view, but I don't like the sound of either the treble or the bass of the Tommys that I've heard or played, to my ear it's harsh and strident, and with no depth. Just a personal view, but it once again emphasises the vital importance of playing the box before you buy it.
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Pushpull
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28#
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Rank:none
Posts:265
Registered:08/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:18/04/2007 19:53:58)
Reply to : Erics owner
Can you explain a bit more about what you mean by the basses are "compromised" on a Tommy?Lou
To get the Tommy small I think 2 things have been done to the bass side.
The first is "reed sharing" where rather than having a full set of reeds for each button, there is a bass end mechanism rather like a piano accordian has which means that for example a D reed can be used in the tonic of a D chord or as the 5th of a G chord (I don't know if that particular case occurs in the Tommy - I've never felt the need to take the pins out and poke about). This reduces the number of reeds hence making the reed block smaller and lighter.
Secondly, I don't think the tonic reeds go as low as say a Hohner and you don't therefore get the same satisfying grunt (in particular I think the C is an octave higher and it does sound a bit lightweight).
In its defence I would say that on several Saltarelles I've tried the bass has always sounded a bit apologetic to me as though the reed blocks are mounted on cotton wool. The Tommy, although admittedly seeming a bit lightweight in TONE does have a certain punch to it (courtesy I assume of the lightness) which I think some of the Saltarelles and indeed bigger Castagnaris lack. However it might well be the sort of sound their players want - playing lyrical stuff as an accompaniment needs IMO a different sound to playing for Morris.
Now then, I don't think from my brief acquaintance that the Elfique suffers from this Saltarelle bass syndrome and to my ears sounds quite well suited to Morris. However, I think the best box for Morris on sound alone (and I suspect Theo might agree) is the Hohner Pokerwork. I suspect it's largely down to the cheap orange box construction - you get the same equation of lightness v. projection in say violins and guitars. But for me - well I do have a Pokerwork (ooh and an Erica) but I REALLY like playing the Tommy.
Now just to drone on a bit more (oh no that's bagpipes isn't it?) I'm surprised at the comment of not liking wet tuning on the Hohner but wanting a box for Morris. I reckon wet is where it's at for Morris and that's where the Hohners really score. So keep the Hohner for Morris (if you like playing it) and get something different for the other stuff.
Roy.
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Veloce
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29#
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Rank:none
Posts:66
Registered:19/09/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:18/04/2007 19:54:49)
Reply to : Theo Gibb
Just a personal view, but it once again emphasises the vital importance of playing the box before you buy it.
If only it were so easy. I live a seven hour drive from the nearest dealer who stocks any D/G boxes, and their stock is usually limited. The safest best, for me, seems to be to order a new box made by a manufacturer with a reputation for consistent quality (Serenellini?) or to order a used box from a reputable dealer with whom I can discuss what I like and don't like about various boxes I've played.
In my case, the choice is limited by my inability to get on with flat keyboards and further complicated by my decision to try a non-standard keyboard layout this time.
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Theo Gibb
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30#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:18/04/2007 20:10:44)
Reply to : Pushpull
To get the Tommy small I think 2 things have been done to the bass side.The first is "reed sharing" where rather than having a full set of reeds for each button, there is a bass end mechanism rather like a piano accordian has which means that for example a D reed can be used in the tonic of a D chord or as the 5th of a G chord (I don't know if that particular case occurs in the Tommy - I've never felt the need to take the pins out and poke about). This reduces the number of reeds hence making the reed block smaller and lighter.Secondly, I don't think the tonic reeds go as low as say a Hohner and you don't therefore get the same satisfying grunt.
Another factor is the number of bass and chord reeds that play at any one time. I've just been working on an older Saltarelle that on the left side has 4 reeds playing the tonic, three reeds on the bass block, plus one on the chord block. Pokerwork/erica has two on the bass block and one on the chord block. I suspect that the Tommy probably only has two, the higher of which is shared between bass and chord.
I'm surprised at the comment of not liking wet tuning on the Hohner
I've already commented on this, but just to add a further thought: As well as being wet tuned, standard Hohners are usually appreciably out of tune. Just getting a pro tuning job done (and perhaps reducing the wetness ever so slightly) can give your Hohner a whole new character without loosing the volume you need for outdoor playing.
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