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simonw
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1#
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Rank:none
Posts:114
Registered:28/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:23/09/2007 19:57:04)
Reply to : Theo Gibb
I agree that it would be desirable to have a properly managed system for this discussion forum. As well as the usual iffy nature of aimoo software I've been finding the forum pages very slow to load over the past week or so, and I've quite often got timeout and database error messages. I do think it would be a very good thing if Squeezy was prepared to share control, I don't think he should be expected to hand over completely.
I agree it would be nice to be able to have the reviews and links updated and more control over the site. I've noticed problems with slow loading as well. It has struck me that people coming to the front page might be deterred by the opening message and assume that the forum is moribund. (And no criticism of Squeezy is intended here as if it hadn't been for him we wouldn't be here in the first place.
Simon
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Steve_freereeder
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2#
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Rank:none
Posts:405
Registered:01/07/2004
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(Date Posted:23/09/2007 20:43:53)
Thanks for starting this thread, Theo....
I agree with both Theo's and Simon's comments. Squeezy has done a great service to us all by setting up this site and the forum and I am sure we are all grateful. The forum has developed into a real resource of information as well as having its social aspects. I've made some lovely real-life friends as a result of this board having been set up.
However, I too feel it is inflexible and recently has getting frustratingly slow. If Theo has some hosting space that would be great. I am willing to serve on a team of moderators/admins if the membership wish it. How do we proceed?
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Theo Gibb
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3#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain 
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:23/09/2007 21:55:15)
Reply to : Steve_freereeder
How do we proceed?
Well we can't act without Squeezy being in agreement, so I think the next step would be to sound him out. Is there someone here who knows him well, and who could meet him in person. Having a discussion face to face would be much better so he can be reassured that we are pleased with what he has started and that we want to help to develop the idea, and we are not attempting a takeover!
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Matthew B
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4#
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Rank:none
Posts:39
Registered:17/10/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:24/09/2007 17:20:45)
I strongly support the notion of an update, and an overhaul. First and foremost, I think Squeezy deserves a collective vote of thanks for crystallizing this community. A great service indeed to those of us playing in kitchens and on back porches far from such centers of melodeon culture as Whitney and Sidmouth. Success comes at a price, however, and parts of the forum have become rather cumbersome. I think a number of things could be moved around to make them more useful. Quite a few very interesting instrument reviews lie buried in threads. It might be worth expanding this section to include some of the debates on tunings and voicings, thoughts on 1.5 rows, discussions of the Morgane, and so on. Perhaps CD reviews, and resource links (spares, custom bellows, instruction, etc) could be taken out of the threads and posted in dedicated spaces. Likewise some really handy things like the chord book put together by Lester and Dazbo, and various and sundry bits of advice on eBay transactions, and buying new instruments could stand a bit more prominence. I would also argue in favor of listing builders, repairers, and tuners by region and speciality. Perhaps then we could retire some of the repetitions around things like Nil Nilsen's address. Finally, while a lot of the threads are useful, I'm not sure how valuable it would be to archive everything. Are the old "For Sale/Now Sold" listings still useful? Likewise, the announcements for workshops and festivals long past?
M
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Theo Gibb
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5#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:24/09/2007 17:39:12)
Lots of good sense there Matthew, I agree with 99% of what you say.
My only slight difference is that while I agree that some of the old threads are not of much interest any more it is probably easier to archive the whole lot, rather than to sift through and decide what to keep and what to chuck out. I think that it would be pretty basic job for someone with access to the server to extract all the data from the forum database and make a searchable archive of it.
I'd like to see a revised version of the discussion topics too.
Anyone able to have a chat with Squeezy in the near future?
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Steve_freereeder
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6#
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Rank:none
Posts:405
Registered:01/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:24/09/2007 18:29:48)
Reply to : Theo Gibb
Lots of good sense there Matthew, I agree with 99% of what you say.My only slight difference is that while I agree that some of the old threads are not of much interest any more it is probably easier to archive the whole lot, rather than to sift through and decide what to keep and what to chuck out. I think that it would be pretty basic job for someone with access to the server to extract all the data from the forum database and make a searchable archive of it.I'd like to see a revised version of the discussion topics too.
I agree too...
Anyone able to have a chat with Squeezy in the near future?
It might be worth approaching Fee (of this forum); she sometimes has lessons with Squeezy.
Are you there, Fee?
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Polkaholic
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7#
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Rank:none
Posts:316
Registered:18/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:24/09/2007 18:46:16)
Reply to : Theo Gibb
Anyone able to have a chat with Squeezy in the near future?
Sounds to me as if you've just voted yourself the task of giving him a bell, Theo!
I agree with just about everything - it's a great pity that the no info. or reviews have been added to the main site since 2004 or whenever it was. I could actually live with the forum on the current host, with all its defects and frustrations - if retrieving all the info. from past messages were to prove difficult, and it might, since aimoo doesn't display the id of the individual pages - I'd rather leave it where it is.
What I'd really like to happen would be for Mr. Spiers to allow one or more people to update the main site.
BTW as I'm sure most of you know, searching for old stuff in the forum is much easier if you do a Google search with site:aimoo.com as the first words. E.g. type "site:aimoo.com oakwood" into the search box - much faster and more reliable than using the built-in search facility.
Steve
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squeezy
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8#
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Rank:none
Posts:62
Registered:23/12/2002
Time spent: 7887 hours
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(Date Posted:25/09/2007 20:12:16)
Hi there,
I've just had a heads up to this thread from Alex Goldsmith. And it's frankly a bit of a relief to know quite how much people want it to work.
I decided to get the domain name and do something because I wanted it to exist - not because I had any other agenda from it. I'm a box nerd and during a period of my life when I had quite a lot of spare time - I thought I might as well do it.
I'm amazed and delighted that the forums have become such a great resource for box players (actually I don't have time to read them or join in at the moment - but I'd like them to come back to!) All I really do is pay the web hosting and Aimoo whenever the page limit is exceeded and let the forum get on with itself.
So if anyone wants to form a committee or take it on themselves - please be my guest as long as you let me back in from time to time. You can get hold of me on 07957 563559 or email at john@spiersandboden.com - it shouldn't be too hard to transfer over the hosting accounts (currently LCN.com for the main site and aimoo has it under my other messageboard account). Taking it off me would also gain you a presteigious @melodeon.net email address!
I'm sitting backstage at the Shepherds Bush Empire where they have Wi-Fi - but my general internet access on tour is random so don't worry if you contact me and don't get anything back straight away.
Cheers
Squeezy
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Fee
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9#
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Registered:28/03/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:26/09/2007 11:21:50)
Reply to : squeezy
if anyone wants to form a committee or take it on themselves- please be my guest as long as you le
I just came in to look at this thread as Steve let me know yesterday, unfortunately time and 'stuff' means I haven't had a lesson for yonks (I really must, I've learnt the tunes from last December and everything). But now Squeezy has popped in too so things can get going  Thanks to Alex for letting him know.
I think most people find their way to the board eventually, but it would be nice to update the front page from 2004!
Cheers
Fi
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Steve_freereeder
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10#
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Rank:none
Posts:405
Registered:01/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:26/09/2007 12:35:39)
Reply to : squeezy
I'm amazed and delighted that the forums have become such a great resource for box players (actually I don't have time to read them or join in at the moment - but I'd like them to come back to!) All I really do is pay the web hosting and Aimoo whenever the page limit is exceeded and let the forum get on with itself.
So if anyone wants to form a committee or take it on themselves - please be my guest as long as you let me back in from time to time. You can get hold of me on 07957 563559 or email at john@spiersandboden.com - it shouldn't be too hard to transfer over the hosting accounts (currently LCN.com for the main site and aimoo has it under my other messageboard account). Taking it off me would also gain you a presteigious @melodeon.net email address!
So - looks like we've got the thumbs-up from Squeezy. It's up to us now.....
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Jo Ellis Boyfriend
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11#
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Rank:none
Posts:223
Registered:19/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:26/09/2007 14:37:17)
Reply to : Steve_freereeder
So - looks like we've got the thumbs-up from Squeezy. It's up to us now.....
Well... I'd be happy to take it on. As some of you know, I'm at University in Newcastle Upon Tyne, studying (!) on the folk and traditional music degree. So I would have enough time most of the year to look after it.
The problem is, although I'm a whizz kid with computers, I've never ventured into website design or html or anything. Oh- and I know Squeezy quite well, so sorting everything out wouldn't be too difficult.
I also know that at times it could be a lot of work, so if others were interested or wanted to help with it too, that may be good.
What do you think?...
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C age ing
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12#
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Registered:20/08/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:26/09/2007 15:30:54)
Pip,
THINK?
On a Melodeon site?
Bill.
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clivewilliams
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13#
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Rank:none
Posts:65
Registered:28/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:26/09/2007 16:27:40)
Reply to : Jo Ellis Boyfriend
Reply to : Steve_freereederSo - looks like we've got the thumbs-up from Squeezy. It's up to us now.....Well... I'd be happy to take it on. ... I also know that at times it could be a lot of work, so ifothers were interested or wanted to help with it too, that may be good.What do you think?...
Hmmm. Well, with my day job head on (obligatory link: www.rectanglered.com), I think we've got two tasks here, the main website, and the forums.
The main website is fairly straightforward to update - we can set up an open source content management system (Joomla, perhaps) which once set up, a team of administrators could manage and look after with little/no need to know HTML or any technical stuff. Setting it up is not for the faint of heart however!
The forums are harder. AFAIK, there's no way to export membership or postings data from Aimoo, and if you think about it, why would they provide that and make it easier for users to move away? So, we can either keep the forums on here for now, or set up new forums which everyone would have to register on, and throw away the old data.
Personally, I think I'd keep the old forums for now, and deal with them once we've reworked the website. When we do come to move it, I'm *hoping* Squeezy's Aimoo account will at least give us a list of users and emails so we can give everyone new passwords to a new site. As for the old messages, best thing is probably to use a 'WebWhacker'-style tool to download them as static HTML pages and make these pages accessible as a library on the new site (separate from the new forum). Not sure about the copyright implications of that however - would have to check. At worst, we might have to mangle the HTML pages to get rid of any Aimoo code. But as I say, that's a job for another day.
So... I'm happy to try putting together a Joomla-style example site to demonstrate what we could do to the main site. I do have to pay the bills though, so it'd have to be a grab-an-hour-here-and-there job, and may take a "little while" to set up. Does anyone else have more time and fancies doing it instead?
Or does anyone have any better suggestions?
Cheers,
Clive
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Jo Ellis Boyfriend
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14#
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Rank:none
Posts:223
Registered:19/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:26/09/2007 19:31:43)
Reply to : C age ing
Pip,THINK?On a Melodeon site?Bill.
Sorry, I wasn't near a melodeon at the time. Normal practice resumed!
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Andy Next Tune
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15#
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Rank:none
Posts:88
Registered:25/11/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:27/09/2007 01:45:29)
Reply to : clivewilliams
Hmmm. Well, with my day job head on (obligatory link: www.rectanglered.com), I think we've got two tasks here, the main website, and the forums.The main website is fairly straightforward to update - we can set up an open source content management system (Joomla, perhaps) which once set up, a team of administrators could manage and look after with little/no need to know HTML or any technical stuff. Setting it up is not for the faint of
Hi Clive,
I think you've hit the two nails bang on the head (my day job is Internet Consultancy).
Open Source CMS is definitely the way forward for the site, and the current content should migrate easily. (DotNetNuke is a good alternative to Joomla).
And I'd leave the forum alone, until someone has time to research how to migrate the threads. The library/archive is a great idea, but the work of transferring stuff could be immense. If it can't be done reasonably automatically, then its 'line in the sand' and time to start again. It might be the costs of just keeping this forum alive as an archive make it a viable option.
Anyway, I'm happy to provide input/assistance to this project as needed.
Regards
Andy
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Mike Gott
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16#
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Rank:none
Posts:264
Registered:05/06/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:27/09/2007 14:49:50)
I can have little practical input to this as I'm more of a Fred Dibnah than a Bill Gates but I feel that there needs to be one main person in overall control of the site with maybe two or three asisstants, maybe with one taking responsibility for the non-forum stuff? Steve? Theo? Who makes the decision on who it will be? This is a difficult one.
Mike
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Matthew B
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17#
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Rank:none
Posts:39
Registered:17/10/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:27/09/2007 16:35:27)
" . . . leave the forum alone"
I think the notion of a single moderator, with a few assistants is excellent. And I agree that the forums are probably best managed by simple archiving. However, perhaps some of the better content could be distilled out, and posted more prominently. Even those members without significant digital technical skills could contribute to this task by tracking down the "good bits" of the threads, and sending them to "the management" as simple text files or emails. Populating any web resource requires a great deal of high quality content. I think there's a lot of very good material already available here, its just not particularly accessible.
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JohnT38
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18#
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Rank:none
Posts:24
Registered:24/07/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:28/09/2007 23:51:29)
I know there has been an offer of hosting-space for a new set-up already; but if it comes to the point where something more is necessary, I have a reseller account with a major hosting provider, and would be happy to donate hosting - on either Windows or Linux servers - along with SMTP, Webmail, etc.
John
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georgegarside
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19#
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Registered:19/06/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:29/09/2007 00:36:44)
Reply to : Mike Gott
I can have little practical input to this as I'm more of a Fred Dibnah than a Bill Gates but Ifeel that there needs to be one main person in overall control of the site with maybe two or three asisstants, maybe with one taking responsibility for the non-forum stuff? Steve? Theo? Who makes the decision on who it will be? This is a difficult one.Mike
I too much prefer things with cylinders and pistons (rather than pistoffs!) so would be quite useless at helping in any practical way. I also agree with Mike that the decision as to who will be t'main man is difficult as we are not a 'corporate body' with powers to elect one of our number - and even if we were it could get messy.
For what its worth I think that the fairest way of appointing a successor to squeeezy would be to ask him if he would be prepared to hand over, what is after all his website, to an individual of his choosing.. That way nobody could complain that the handaver was biased or unfair. If sqeezy is willing to do this and has not got a clear successor in mind then perhaps those interestd in 'the job' cold just add their names to a list for sqeezies consideration.
Perhaps sqeezy should also retain overall 'ownership' and with it the right to sack the new coordinator if they werre clearly failing to meet the wishes of both him and the 'members' of the site
As far as 'assistants' I feel that it is both necessary for smooth running and indeed fair for the successor to sqeezy to rope in 2 or 3 people that he/she can work with.
perhaps some views for or against these ideas would be useful as would any other suggestions as to how we can best proceed.
george
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Veloce
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20#
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Rank:none
Posts:66
Registered:19/09/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:29/09/2007 00:59:13)
We should remember that the forum has been working remarkably well with virtually no hands-on control and think long and hard before bringing in a "strong man" to run it. I would rather begin by achieving a consensus concerning what needs to be done, and only then considering how to make that happen.
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georgegarside
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21#
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Registered:19/06/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:29/09/2007 13:41:54)
Reply to : Veloce
We should remember that the forum has been working remarkably well with virtually no hands-on control and think long and hard before bringing in a "strong man" to run it. I would rather begin by achieving a consensus concerning what needs to be done, and only then considering how to make that happen.
I agree - if it aint broke don't fix it. thinking about it the majority of people, myself included, are quite happy with the way things are (if they were not surely there would be a lot more people posting missives of discontent!). My last posting was merely to suggest a possible way forward if change becomes inevitable.
george
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Theo Gibb
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22#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:29/09/2007 17:00:14)
Reply to : georgegarside
I agree - if it aint broke don't fix it. thinking about it the majority of people, myself included, are quite happy with the way things are (if they were not surely there would be a lot more people posting missives of discontent!). My last posting was merely to suggest a possible way forward if change becomes inevitable.george
Well for most of the time it ain't broke, but it's certainly not been working properly for me over the last couple of weeks, and because none of us at present has any part in running the forum then we don't have a way to report problems to Aimoo, and either get them fixed, or at least find out if they know about a problem.
I'm very happy with the human side of the way things are here, everyone is very friendly, even when we don't always agree. That's great.
On the other hand there are technical things that could be much better, searching the archives for example, ability to upload pictures, things that don't work properly if you try to go back and edit what you have already written.
And then I think the main topics could be improved to better reflect what people talk about here, and then it would be possible for people to have a much better chance of choosing the most appropriate topic to post in. As a suggestion, Concertina.net has these areas which seem to reflect quite well the topics that have been aired here:
General Discussion
Instrument Construction & Repair
Instrument History
Buy & Sell
Ergonomics
Forum Questions, Suggestions, Help
Teaching and Learning
Tunes
So it does sort of work, but if it was a car it would fail its MOT!
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andrew_w
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23#
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Rank:none
Posts:143
Registered:02/04/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:29/09/2007 18:09:14)
Actually, I think the statement "it ain't broke" is a moot point.
I don't particularly mind if Squeezy has better things to do (or lack of time and different priorities in life) than update the melodeon.net website or to mod this forum; especially as I understand he pays the $5 per month to keep floaty adverts at bay and stop Aimoo from deleting threads over 6 months old. However, I suspect that the main gateway for people to this forum is the melodeon.net website, a website that proudly proclaims on it's front page that it hasn't been touched for well over three years.
What about Aimoo..... Hah! Slow, or often non-existant. Crude, non-compliant with any web standards and effectively holding our forum to ransom; I could go on and on. As you can tell, I love it.
Personally, I think that we should move at least the forum, but please lets not make any hasty decisions. People have already been making suggestions, but I know from experience that this is NOT a simple process. Decide quickly (or on a whim) because something looks good or simple and repent at leisure over the disaster.
A proper Content Management System (using Free Software of course), where people can contribute, comment etc. integrated with a forum would be great; but believe me, we won't and shouldn't get it done over a weekend and over the heads of users of this board.
I have very limited internet access at the moment (heh, look at my "website"  ), buts lots of experience in this area. I also don't have access to a website with MySQL and PHP these days (hey, I play music these days, not programming), but can run anything on my local machines and post up examples.
Maybe those of us who are interested, willing and able should start communicating off forum and run up some realistic proposals.
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Lin Erica
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24#
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Rank:none
Posts:224
Registered:01/08/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:29/09/2007 19:18:48)
Hi all
I know I dont make much input on this forum (mainly as a beginner I have more to learn than to help!!) but for what its worth I think it is great that mel.net exists and that there is such a great bunch of nutters (oops I mean melodeon players) who will give their time and expertise to help anyone who asks a melodeon related question. I would hate to lose it.
I am also completely non technical and therefore cannot help in any way on this subject, but the reason I am posting on this trhead is simply to say, thank you to all who are so concerned for the sites wellbeing that they are so worried about it and want to do something to secure its long term future. I understand there are good ways of doing things, and bad ways, and if the technical boffs amongst us think it is time to improve, then I back you all the way. If it incurs a small financial contribution from members I am also happy and willing to do so (not that that has been mentioned yet!!).
Anyway, I just want to say thanks, and good luck to you technical whizzos
Lin
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Lester Bailey
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25#
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Rank:none
Posts:344
Registered:27/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:29/09/2007 19:26:55)
I remember the time when C.net went from a homebrew forum setup to using the Invision board software they currently use. They had very similar discussions around what we are saying but when the great change over happened the world did not end and the forum is a vibrant as ever but is now searchable, images can be lodged etc. Mind you they have just had an upgrade and that caused another flurry of "it was all so much better before" posts.
Don't think there will be any great loss of information if this Aimoo forum dies, the main contributors are all still around and they (we) seem more than willing to answer the same questions or to offer the same opinions from time to time :-)
I think we would be much better off with Invision (it seems to be the software of choice of many boards I visit) and someone/some people with control of the main pages so they can be updated. More than happy to help but I stopped doing web design when straight html went out of fashion.
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andrew_w
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26#
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Rank:none
Posts:143
Registered:02/04/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:29/09/2007 20:15:42)
Reply to : Lester Bailey
I remember the time when C.net went from a homebrew forum setup to using the Invision board software they currently use. They had very similar discussions around what we are saying but when the great change over happened the world did not end and the forum is a vibrant as ever but is now searchable, images can be lodged etc. Mind you they have just had an upgrade and that caused another flurry of "it was all so much better before" posts.Don't think there will be any great loss of information if this Aimoo forum dies, the main contributors are all still around and they (we) seem more than willing to answer the same questions or to offer the same opinions from time to time :-)I think we would be much better off with Invision (it seems to be the software of choice of many boards I visit) and someone/some people with control of the main pages so they can be updated. More
I don't think we need to pay for the inconvenience of Invision's restrictive licences eg. one copy only to run and one copy only for testing, no upgrades/security unless you continue to pay after 6 months etc etc. It's a pretty bad licence and I for one wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.
There are perfectly good discussion boards that don't have restrictive proprietary licences and are just as good as Invision.
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Lester Bailey
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27#
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Rank:none
Posts:344
Registered:27/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:29/09/2007 21:32:21)
Reply to : andrew_w
I don't think we need to pay for the inconvenience of Invision's restrictive licences eg. one copy only to run and one copy only for testing, no upgrades/security unless you continue to pay after 6 months etc etc. It's a pretty bad licence and I for one wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.
Hey, I was only talking from the consumer side which looks Ok. As you appear to know more I bow to your greater knowledge.
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andrew_w
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28#
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Rank:none
Posts:143
Registered:02/04/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:29/09/2007 21:42:13)
Reply to : Lester Bailey
Hey, I was only talking from the consumer side which looks Ok. As you appear to know more I bow to your greater knowledge.
Actually I should have replied to your main point which was to do with web communities moving to a "better place".
When the technical stuff is done right, I think that you're correct in that community can feel a positive boost.
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Mike Gott
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29#
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Rank:none
Posts:264
Registered:05/06/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:30/09/2007 13:58:33)
There are two issues here, the first being who is to to take over from Squeezy as the person or persons running melodeon.net, the second being do we want to change the actual site itself. This latter point seems to be dominating and turning the thread into a discussion between the more computer enthusiast types among us as to their personal preferences. Would it not be best to split this into two clearly separate issues and then possibly address first the one of who is to take over the site. Once that is sorted and agreed maybe then we can address the subject of changing the host and the site itself if that is what we want ? Maybe a poll could be held.
Mike
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Theo Gibb
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30#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:13/10/2007 19:34:22)
Well things are beginning to move forward now.
I've been in touch with Squeezy and he is happy for us to take over, on condition that the domain www.melodeon.net remains a non-commercial information site for melodeon players and enthusiasts. I think we can manage that.
There is quite a choice of free forum software that I've been looking at and I've set up this one as a trial.. Please have a look round, try posting a message. Note you will have to register as a member before you can post.
Please bear in mind that this is a temporary arrangement so please don't start melodeon discussion there.
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