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wgwy
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1#
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Rank:none
Posts:176
Registered:01/03/2005
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(Date Posted:26/11/2005 00:05:54)
Reply to : Lester Bailey
Look at this
Sorry, made a mistake.
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Peter Brook
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2#
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Rank:none
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(Date Posted:26/11/2005 01:41:55)
Reply to : wgwy
Reply to : Lester BaileyLook at thisSorry, made a mistake.
err.. sorry but that's got to be a wind up? surely. Maybe it was for an exhibition or something. Lots of weird concertinas have been made over the years in the shape of german helmets and little houses and such.
How does the bell project the sound on the suck? - it can't so you are going to get much louder blown notes than "sucked" notes....
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george garside
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3#
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Rank:none
Posts:367
Registered:24/02/2005
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(Date Posted:26/11/2005 02:06:18)
Reply to : anglo X-training
Reply to : wgwyReply to : Lester BaileyLook at thisSorry, made a mistake.err.. sorry but that's got to be a wind up? surely. Maybe it was for an exhibition or something. Lots of weird concertinas have been made over the years in the shape of german helmets and little houses and such.How does the bell project the sound on the suck? - it can't so you are going to get much louder blown notes than "sucked" notes....
sucking must be an absolute bugger!
george
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Lester Bailey
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4#
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Rank:none
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(Date Posted:26/11/2005 10:24:14)
I have Googled:
The Hohner Sax was one of a line of blow-accordions produced by Hohner around the 1920s. They were similar to German/Cajun style accordions, having ten melody buttons (diatonic scale) and two accompaniment buttons, except that they only had one reed for each note and, of course, no bellows, as they are mouth blown. As well as the Hohner Sax (which, not surprisingly, was shaped like a small saxophone), they also made the Hohnerette (which was a rectangular box with a trumpet-style mouthpiece at the top; some models had one or more brass horns attached to the top of the box) and the Hohner Organette, which was a cylindrical version. Similar instruments were made by other makers in Germany.
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Pushpull
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5#
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Rank:none
Posts:265
Registered:08/07/2004
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(Date Posted:26/11/2005 14:57:25)
Reply to : Lester Bailey
I have Googled:The Hohner Sax was one of a line of blow-accordions produced by Hohner around the 1920s.
Wouldn't a better comparison be with a mouth organ, not a melodeon?
Roy.
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Pushpull
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6#
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Rank:none
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(Date Posted:26/11/2005 15:10:09)
Reply to : Pushpull
Wouldn't a better comparison be with a mouth organ, not a melodeon?Roy.
No Roy that's rubbish. It's got keys.
Roy.
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Squeeze-Me-Gently
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7#
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Registered:12/10/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:26/11/2005 15:12:08)
Reply to : Pushpull
Reply to : PushpullWouldn't a better comparison be with a mouth organ, not a melodeon?Roy.No Roy that's rubbish. It's got keys.Roy.
Strikes me it's more akin to a melodica.
Paul
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Lester Bailey
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8#
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(Date Posted:26/11/2005 18:33:50)
And, Roy, its also got "and two accompaniment buttons" so its a 1 row 1 stop mouth blown melodeon (I think). Probably closer to a Sheng than anything else. Sheng Info
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C age ing
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9#
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Registered:20/08/2005
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(Date Posted:26/11/2005 19:55:26)
Reply to : Lester Bailey
And, Roy, its also got "and two accompaniment buttons" so its a 1 row 1 stop mouth blown melodeon (I think). Probably closer to a Sheng than anything else.Sheng Info
With these we could have Morris bands playing like the old big bands, instruments being swung in time (there's a MJQ joke). Therefore we will need musician movement planners and yet further practice. Would any dancers care to comment on the new repertoire, 'Lester Leaps in' would be very suitable for one talented member's side. This also gives rise to the use of jitterbug and jazz moves, enlivening the Morris movement yet again.
Sadly, every performance would have to end with 'Save the last dance for me" and I'm practising it already!
Bill.
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andrew_w
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10#
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Rank:none
Posts:143
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(Date Posted:26/11/2005 22:04:29)
Reply to : anglo X-training
How does the bell project the sound on the suck? - it can't so you are going to get much louder blown notes than "sucked" notes....
Melodeons, for instance, do not have noticeably louder push notes than pull notes so I don't see why that should be an intrinsic problem. Anyway, by the looks of it, those keys are covering holes and operating like Melodeon pads so the "saxophone" bell is just for show.
I would have thought of more concern would be where the reeds are situated and the volume of the cavity that you are supposed to be blowing/sucking them through (ie. compressing/decompressing the air).
It really looks like a very strange contraption!
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Mike Gott
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11#
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(Date Posted:27/11/2005 10:42:06)
I suspect Squeeze-me-Gently has got it, the seller has got "melodeon" and "melodica" mixed up.
Mike
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Lester Bailey
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12#
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Rank:none
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(Date Posted:27/11/2005 11:07:10)
Reply to : Mike Gott
I suspect Squeeze-me-Gently has got it, the seller has got "melodeon" and "melodica" mixed up.Mike
It is definitly a Melodeon Sax, for the following reasons:
- That's what Hohner called it
- A melodica has a piona type keyboard and is fully cromatic
- The beast has two bass buttons
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Mike Gott
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13#
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Rank:none
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(Date Posted:27/11/2005 11:13:47)
No..........I take previous comment back. I hadn't seen the note about working on the "suck/blow" priciple. Looking hard at it (as I should have done BEFORE posting last comment) it looks to have two other buttons below the ten. Basses? I'd rather like a go on this, but as my old Alto sax has been waiting three years for a small solder repair to make it playable again I couldn't really justify having this as well!
Mike
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Peter Brook
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14#
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Rank:none
Posts:103
Registered:12/03/2005
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(Date Posted:27/11/2005 12:31:13)
Reply to : andrew_w
Melodeons, for instance, do not have noticeably louder push notes than pull notes so I don't see why that should be an intrinsic problem. Anyway, by the looks of it, those keys are covering holes and operating like Melodeon pads so the "saxophone" bell is just for show.I would have thought of more concern would be where the reeds are situated and the volume of the cavity that you are supposed to be blowing/sucking them through (ie. compressing/decompressing the air).It really looks like a very strange contraption!
So you are stating that oboes, clarinets, saxaphones ie. "fixed reed" instruments only have the bell for show? This seems very curious to me.
I understand why melodeons aren't quieter on the suck because you have a huge resonating chamber to amplify the sound. (in fact they are louder because they are easier to pull open than push closed)
How would the reeds be positioned on this Sax? Perpendicular to the key or flush?
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Squeeze-Me-Gently
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15#
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Registered:12/10/2005
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(Date Posted:27/11/2005 13:21:07)
Reply to : Mike Gott
No..........I take previous comment back. I hadn't seen the note about working on the "suck/blow" priciple. Looking hard at it (as I should have done BEFORE posting last comment) it looks to have two other buttons below the ten. Basses? I'd rather like a go on this, but as my old Alto sax has been waiting three years for a small solder repair to make it playable again I couldn't really justify having this as well!Mike
You're right, Mike - I hadn't registered the "blow-suck" either.
Paul
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gc-john
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16#
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Rank:none
Posts:24
Registered:16/02/2005
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(Date Posted:27/11/2005 15:32:37)
How does it work? well, I reckon that the suck notes are inhaled by the player, resonate cassotto like round your head and emerge through the nose and around the eye balls. Really should be a two row as its got to be more suited to row crossing as push pull!
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andrew_w
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17#
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Rank:none
Posts:143
Registered:02/04/2005
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(Date Posted:27/11/2005 15:57:17)
Reply to : anglo X-training
So you are stating that oboes, clarinets, saxaphones ie. "fixed reed" instruments only have the bell for show? This seems very curious to me.
It would have been curious if I had made that statement, but I didn't. This instrument is not a Saxophone; it only looks a bit like a Saxophone for obvious marketing purposes. Saxophones, clarinets and oboes have a reed in the mouthpiece and notes are formed by vibrating a column of air of changing length, regulated by keys opening holes. The sound tends to travel out of the instrument through it's open end. The instrument is effectively a tube (or, rather, a cone) with a "fixed reed" stuck into one end.
Free reeds operate by interrupting the flow of air through a hole. The size, shape and mass of the reed affect the speed at which it vibrates and thereby the note that is produced. A single reed creates a single note (yes, clever harmonica players etc excluded  ) and it does not rely on a column of air for the pitch.
An instrument like a Melodeon uses a pressure chamber, with regulated holes for each free reed, to push air through the free reeds. On a harmonica this pressure chamber is the mouth, on this "Hohner melodeon Sax" (or whatever) thing, the pressure chamber is in the barrel of the instrument, driven by the lungs. Having a hole through the bell of the instrument would be akin to cutting a hole in your melodeon's bellows to let the sound out!
How do I "know" this? Through cunning deduction  There are obviously no reeds in the mouthpiece being played like a harmonica, there are keys laid out like a one row melodeon and the seller states that it's "played like a melodeon".
I understand why melodeons aren't quieter on the suck because you have a huge resonating chamber to amplify the sound. (in fact they are louder because they are easier to pull open than push closed)
The speed of sound through air at 20? is approximately 768 mph, therefore I don't see that the direction of the air flow in a melodeon would have much of an impact over which way the sound goes. In that case the "resonating chamber" would work more or less equally on all notes.
- contradictions on any point accepted of course 
How would the reeds be positioned on this Sax? Perpendicular to the key or flush?
No idea, someone will have to buy it and disassemble it
PS.
Hey! I've just looked out of the window and it's snowing! 
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Peter Brook
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18#
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Rank:none
Posts:103
Registered:12/03/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:27/11/2005 17:01:54)
Reply to : andrew_w
It would have been curious if I had made that statement, but I didn't. This instrument is not a Saxophone; it only looks a bit like a Saxophone for obvious marketing purposes. Saxophones, clarinets and oboes have a reed in the mouthpiece and notes are formed by vibrating a column of air of changing length, regulated by keys opening holes. The sound tends to travel out of the instrument through it's open end. The instrument is effectively a tube (or, rather, a cone) with a "fixed reed" stuck into one end.Free reeds operate by interrupting the flow of air through a hole. The size, s
Well perhaps my "are" and "you" should have been the other way round so my comment wasn't as strong and was more of a question (as I intended). Also as a brass player of 30 years I have an inherent disregard for all things "Fixed Reed". Clarinets always got the lead part in wind band!
However, melodeons are easier to pull open than push closed because of gravity. Nothing to do with air moving about in this case. It is therefore easier to play them louder on the pull, than when pushing.
My original point is still valid that this is a silly, pretty pointless, white elephant instrument which is probably why they didn't sell or make that many.
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Dazbo
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19#
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Registered:08/08/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:27/11/2005 17:41:07)
Wasn't one of Wheatstone's original designs for a "concertina" blown by the mouth rather than bellows?
I must admit that it reminds me of the yellow plastic trumpet I got in my Xmas stocking as a young boy.
Darren
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andrew_w
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20#
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Rank:none
Posts:143
Registered:02/04/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:27/11/2005 18:27:31)
Reply to : anglo X-training
Well perhaps my "are" and "you" should have been the other way round so my comment wasn't as strong and was more of a question (as I intended). Also as a brass player of 30 years I have an inherent disregard for all things "Fixed Reed". Clarinets always got the lead part in wind band!
However, melodeons are easier to pull open than push closed because of gravity. Nothing to do with air moving about in this case. It is therefore easier to play them louder on the pull, than when pushing.
My original point is still valid that this is a silly, pretty pointless, white elephant instrument which is probably why they didn't sell or make that many.
I pretty much agree there, except I suppose the point of the instrument was probably to get interest at some trade show or other. All sorts of odd things get bought and who would have thought melodicas still get made, bought and played!
Out of curiosity I would quite like to have a look at it (and have a go on it), but at ?25 there is absolutely no possibility that I would buy it.
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melodeonmark
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21#
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Rank:none
Posts:139
Registered:15/09/2005
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(Date Posted:27/11/2005 21:43:28)
Hohner still make a harmonica with I believe 4 tiny trumpets coming out of the end, its a remake of a very old design now purely made for novelty purposes. The harmonica and melodeon are so similar, the melodeon was originally called the hand harmonika, that maybe if you think of it more as a mouth harmonica it seems to make more sense.
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melodeonmark
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22#
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Rank:none
Posts:139
Registered:15/09/2005
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(Date Posted:27/11/2005 21:59:46)
The harmonica with 5 tiny trumpets coming out of the end is the Hohner Trumpet Call, a re-issue of a model first made in 1906 and still available in the USA. Hohner also do the 'Echophone', a re-issue of a 1920s model with a single trumpet, this can be seen on the eagle music website. Hope this is of help!
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Malodeon
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23#
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Rank:none
Posts:39
Registered:28/06/2004
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(Date Posted:28/11/2005 10:37:06)
Hohner also made a 1 row (about 1920's) with a brass trumpet like horn over the outside of the melody side, it was said to help sound projection. I think I have some infomation from one that was on US ebay last year.
malcolm
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Mike Gott
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24#
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Rank:none
Posts:264
Registered:05/06/2005
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(Date Posted:28/11/2005 11:14:12)
A friend back in Lincolnshire used to have a melodeon with four or five trumpets on the melody end, we used to refer to it as her "Trumpelodeon"...
Mike
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C age ing
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25#
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Registered:20/08/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:28/11/2005 14:38:11)
Reply to : Mike Gott
A friend back in Lincolnshire used to have a melodeon with four or five trumpets on the melody end, we used to refer to it as her "Trumpelodeon"...Mike
Mike,
Which only proves the truism about blowing one's own trumpet.
Did you try it?
Blowing the trumpets, I meant.
Bill.
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Mike Gott
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26#
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Rank:none
Posts:264
Registered:05/06/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:28/11/2005 15:10:16)
Reply to : C age ing
Mike....did you try it?Blowing the trumpets, I meant.Bill.
Yes - years ago, and I seem to remember one of the trumpets falling off mid-tune (without any noticeable difference). Apparently next time I visit the owner I am being presented with said trumpelodeon so I can maybe post a photo and provide a test report. I have another friend (also in Lincolnshire) who has a Tremelodeon. I've played that and it sounds like nothing on earth. I seem to think Dick Nudds in his alias as the senior Kipper played one of those as part of the old Kipper Family act.
Mike
P.S. now have a Florence Foster Jenkins CD.
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C age ing
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27#
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Registered:20/08/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:28/11/2005 16:58:29)
Reply to : Mike Gott
.MikeP.S. now have a Florence Foster Jenkins CD.
Mike,
Have you tried accompanying my heroine on the melodeon? Even my fantastic abilities are belittled by The Diva although it might just be possible with my old slide trombone or a Swanee whistle.
Bill.
postscriptum:-Just off for the new deaf aid fitting.
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andrew_w
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28#
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Rank:none
Posts:143
Registered:02/04/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:28/11/2005 17:14:36)
Reply to : C age ing
Mike,Have you tried accompanying my heroine on the melodeon? Even my fantastic abilities are belittled byThe Divaalthough it might just be possible with my old slide trombone or a Swanee whistle.Bill.postscriptum:-Just off for the new deaf aid fitting.
Oh, I don't know, I'm sure I've seen some specially adapted vintage models on Ebay.
They're usually described as missing bits or "sort of" in tune, but we true aficionados know the truth!
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Mike Gott
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29#
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Rank:none
Posts:264
Registered:05/06/2005
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(Date Posted:28/11/2005 19:15:04)
Reply to : C age ing
Mike,Have you tried accompanying my heroine on the melodeon...
May try this tonight though I may be better off waiting until I can borrow the dreadful Tremelodeon. (This has an extra stop which brings the tremelo into play). We do actually have a singer in this area who recently had some classical singing lessons and is now in the disturbing habit of unexpectedly bursting forth at sessions in basic down to earth pubs with a "trained" type voice with (unknowingly) very Florence Foster-Jenkins type results - so perhaps I could go for the live approach and join in. Maybe the Melodeon Sax would be just the thing for this. May consider a bid after all.
Mike
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C age ing
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30#
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Registered:20/08/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:29/11/2005 08:03:54)
Back to being serious. Yes I know that spoils things, but it is all to do with matching impedance. And that is not a variant of contra-dance.
Your local fire brigade uses volutes to match impedance between differing size hoses to maintain maximum flow. The computer you are using needs various impedance matching systems to avoid vastly increasing your carbon footprint. (Bonus points for first use of this 'buzz phrase' on Melnet). Similarly the exponential horn on sound instruments is to achieve maximum transfer of sound energy from the producing instrument into the surrounding space.
Brass, woodwind, non-amplified gramophones, acoustic non sound board strings and some loudspeaker enclosures use horns to achieve this efficient coupling. A little thought would suggest that a reed/reed plate combination in a melodeon also forms a very rough horn when sounding, one of the reasons that they can be so loud. The horns on melodeons appear to serve a purely decorative purpose, think Alyson Hannigan pumping bellows......drool.......heart attack........see, I told you not to make me serious.
Bill, age six Physics Oxon (failed)
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