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frank Lee
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1#
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Rank:none
Posts:26
Registered:12/10/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:07/11/2007 14:13:20)
Reply to : Play By Ear
Well it's finally happened after 7 years. I have cracked and understand how row crossing works and it's opening up of the use of bass/chords sequences.Yes I know,I should of learnt to do it at the start of my playing butwithout a a tutor and no musical theory knowledge I just could not get to grips with it, except of course for the odd note or two.So, last Thursday a fellow melodeonist played a Morris tune in Em (bobbing joan, bobbing around?)which had me captivated. Turns out she learnt it at Melodeons at Witney workshop run by Squeezy.Well being a Play By Ear chap I started playing along in my 'normal' one row way when she pointed out that, if I crossed and used that button, back to the other row and think of row crossing in triangles I could use this chord/bass etc. Well that's when the penny dropped.Since
===============================================================================
I just consigned all my existing repertoire to 'Room 101', and started again, re-working everything. I was more than happy to do this, as in fact I could no longer stand the sound of what I'd been playing before, with bass as musical as a braying donkey . In my case the 'eureka moment' happened out of sheer boredom, playing the same tunes week-in week-out for a morris team. Being Postman's Knocked-out, I found myself facing the prospect of giving up the team, and the melodeon, or looking for something better to do with the box.
The melodeon police (who do they think they are?!) had told me I shouldn't be crossing rows as this makes the thing sound like a piano accordeon! Well, yes, it can, (the French seem to do it with that very purpose!) but you can also cross rows to introduce MORE push-pull into your playing. But in any case I happen to be a great admirer of piano accordeons, in fact it was listening to all those lovely accordeon bass chords and runs that made me so discontent with the D/G meldeon. There! - that's me booted off the forum!!!!!!!
Bye!
Frank
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Larry Anthony
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2#
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Rank:none
Posts:2
From: United Kingdom 
Registered:07/11/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:07/11/2007 14:32:50)
Reply to : Play By Ear
Well it's finally happened after 7 years. I have cracked and understand how row crossing works and it's opening up of the use of bass/chords sequences.Yes I know,I should of learnt to do it at the start of my playing butwithout a a tutor and no musical theory knowledge I just could not get to grips with it, except of course for the odd note or two.So, last Thursday a fellow melodeonist played a Morris tune in Em (bobbing joan, bobbing around?)which had me captivated. Turns out she learnt it at Melodeons at Witney workshop run by Squeezy.Well being a Play By Ear chap I started playing along in my 'normal' one row way when she pointed out that, if I crossed and used that button, back to the other row and think of row crossing in triangles I could use this chord/bass etc. Well that's when the penny dropped.Since
Hi everyone,
Tell me more about this cross rowing. Is there anywhere online one can learn these things?
I've been lurking here for about three years now, I have a B/C box and a G/C/F box.
I learned how to play and read music on a PA some 50+ years ago.
Thanks
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Fee
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3#
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Registered:28/03/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:07/11/2007 14:46:58)
I think knowing how to do both is the best (with most things having more than one technique up your sleeve is always handy). You can then play bouncy dancey tunes on one row (I think it does give them more lift played this way) and beautiful French (e.g.) tunes on the cross rows. It opens up the whole range of basses you can use too.
I do both, though I'm in no way a hugely experienced player, it is nice to try tunes out one row/cross rows and find what sounds good to you..
Cheers
Fi
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georgegarside
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4#
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Registered:19/06/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:07/11/2007 15:11:11)
Reply to : Larry Anthony
Reply to : Play By EarWell it's finally happened after 7 years. I have cracked and understand how row crossing works and it's opening up of the use of bass/chords sequences.Yes I know,I should of learnt to do it at the start of my playing butwithout a a tutor and no musical theory knowledge I just could not get to grips with it, except of course for the odd note or two.So, last Thursday a fellow melodeonist played a Morris tune in Em (bobbing joan, bobbing around?)which had me captivated. Turns out she learnt it at Melodeons at Witney workshop run by Squeezy.Well being a Play By Ear chap I started playing along in my 'normal' one row way when she pointed out that, if I crossed and used that button, back to the other row and think of row crossing in triangles I could use this chord/bass etc. Well that's when the penny dropp
Hi Anthony
I think the expresion 'row crossing' is used mostly in the context of 4th apart boxes eg DG GCF etc as on semitone boxes eg BC it is pretty much the norm unless you want to play everything in B or C (on the row) i.e. any other key such as D G A F requires crossing (another term for using both of) the rows to get the necessary accidentals (black notes in piano terms). However advaantage can be taken of the notes B &E (on a BC box) which occur on both rows buit in opposite bellow direction. Careful choice of which to use (different for different tunes) can make possible a bit more harmonising bass accompanyment.
On the DG etc row crossing is not an essential part of playing but again can be used to advantaage to 'make available' better bass harmony - eg if playing on D row in key of D the G push note on inside row can be used instead of the G pull note on the outside row - this means that the note G on the treble is plsyed in the same bellows direction as G bass, which can be used to provide a nice biut of harmony. There are other such 'combinations'. The other reason for row crossing can be to either simplify fingering or reduce bellows ins & outs to 'smooth ' a tune ( or indeed the other way round to give more bounce as Fee said).
My personal view , for what its worth (& refering to DG etc boxes) is that bouncy or smooth can be done just as well on the row or crossing the rows provided good bellows control is mastered. Also that the advantages of row crossing to improve bass harmony get increasingly marginal the faster the tune (and the less time a note is around for!) However row crossing to improve bass harmony can be done to great aadvaantage on slow tunes e.g. waltzes with you have some nice long notes to harmonise the bass with.
At the end of the day its well worth experimenting with all possibilities and doing a sort of pick & mix according to what you think sounds best for a particular tune rather than thinking in terms of should I or should I not cross the rows.
george
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Play By Ear
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5#
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Rank:none
Posts:8
Registered:19/03/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:07/11/2007 16:04:19)
George and Fee
I think you are right about exploring the possibilities and having new techniques available to you. That's why I was chuffed that I can now do it. It will allow me once a little more practiced to, ornament some of the tunes I play.
As a slight aside, I would recommend to any newbie to the box to record themselves playing, it's amazing how your playing develops over the years.
Chris
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Larry Anthony
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6#
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Rank:none
Posts:2
From: United Kingdom
Registered:07/11/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:07/11/2007 16:19:50)
Reply to : Play By Ear
That's why I was chuffed that I can now do it. Chris
Hi Chris,
So what was it you learned to do?
*Larry*
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Folkiekay
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7#
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Rank:none
Posts:85
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:07/11/2007 21:11:06)
Reply to : Larry Anthony
Hi Larry,
My advice is to go to Youtube and watch a bunch of videos - put the word diatonic or diatonique in the search bar and check out some two and three row tunes using two or three rows. There are lots on there and you can easily see how people do this. Since you have a G/C/F, you have the perfect box to learn with. Also, if you go to Bernard Loffet's website, he has tablature tunes that are free to use that use more than one row at a time, and you could easily learn a few of those tunes and get the hang of playing two rows.
Wishing you excellent progress!
Kay
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Robin Harrison
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8#
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Rank:none
Posts:12
Registered:06/03/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:08/11/2007 18:24:29)
Chris,well done.Like you , I am on that same frustrating but satifying journey.
I have always thought...........and this is purely my perception.........I should try to play a melodeon like a piano accordion ( and vice versa would also apply if I played one).My thought being this would keep the drive and bounce of the melodeon but smooth it out so tunes sound more musical ( again to my ear) and also allow for the possibility of more interesting basses.I am happy to say it is slowly working.
I've been sweating away at this for probably 3yrs ( in fact since I got my ADG) and my playing skills,such as they were, dramatically worsened.It's only recently that the cross row fingering is sometimes becoming second nature,if I play slowly.The most frustrating aspect of this is that I will learn either a new tune or re-finger an old old at home,and as soon as I play it up to speed for Morris or a session, I revert to the old up-and down way..............What kills me is that with a new tune that I will never have played , ever, up and down the rows,but I'm so "hard wired" to play like this, I revert to the old way (just to keep up)...........and what the happens is then whole thing sounds like a mess but I accept this now as part of the learning curve.I just go home, practise the newly learnt way and realize that month by month I am incrementally improving.
I does lead you, as discussed here,to trying to be more creative on the bass,which is turning out to be a joy...............on the well known tune Enrico, in the second part I've newly found this....A,Fm,Bm,G,Em,Em ,A. ( I think)..........I'm so excited about this I now play the tune with one "A" and four "B"s !!
Good Luck Robin
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