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lars_jakabov
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1#
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Rank:none
Posts:52
Registered:02/12/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:27/10/2007 19:46:09)
I just sold a weltmeister, and I must say they are great for the price. I'd rate them higher than hohner.
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Jeff H
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2#
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Registered:15/12/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:28/10/2007 00:36:56)
Having owned both ( the Weltmeister under another name but same maker) I see advantages to both
But for my money a Hohner 114 made in Germany.....
pre 80's if possible
wood keyboard if possible
Then,
Have a tuner/accordion tech who specializes in button accordions dry it out a bit.. pad the mechanism under the buttons to reduce the distance you push the button down
Light and fast loud good fun cheap
resale better than the Welties..
I have nothing against the Welties or the Galottas or Regals.. they are ok
but I just like the Hohners
I have a mid 50's 2 stopper in A currently....I think I paid $75 US and it is in decent shape.. and has had serious play time mover the years.
lots of MOJO
Can't go wrong with either..
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otisluxton
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3#
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Rank:none
Posts:81
Registered:15/08/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:28/10/2007 03:17:52)
Hey,
a had a hunt around for a one rower a few months back, played all sorts including castagnaris, hohners and weltmeisters. I played a few from the 'london accordion centre' i think it is called. They had a range of italian made one rowers ranging from 200 to 1000 quid, including inbetweenies at 300, 400 and 500 pounds. I cant name you the make of the melodeons, but try contacting them. I played a one row that was around 350 and it easily matched a castagnari one row in terms of tone and playability. infact the tone was less brash that the castagnari one rows, which can be a bit growly, especially in D. - Give the london shop a try. I may have got the name wrong, if not, try them. also try Mr. Allodi in London. I understand that the two shop owners are friends, so if Allodi doesent have one, then try and get the number for the other shop. It may be worth spending 50 quid more to get yourself a nice little box. Otherwise, get hohner over the weltmeister. they sound REALLY growly, but theyre meant to right!?
a castagnari tommy also gives a nice one row sound with the extra low reed in on the right hand side, and is about the same size as a one row too! )
hehe, cheers. Good luck with the one row, theyre awesome! otis.
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wgwy
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4#
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Rank:none
Posts:176
Registered:01/03/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:28/10/2007 14:02:09)
Reply to : otisluxton
Hey,I had a hunt around for a one rower a few months back, played all sorts including castagnaris, hohners and weltmeisters. I played a few from the 'london accordion centre' i think it is called. They had a range of italian made one rowers ranging from 300 to 1000 quid, including inbetweenies at 300, 400 and 500 pounds. I cant name you the make of the melodeons, but try contacting them.
You were possibly at "Accordions of London" in Kilburn. See website for their range and contact info. See also
Allodi Accordions button accordion listing.
Bill Y
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Txbear
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5#
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Rank:none
Posts:85
Registered:23/05/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:31/10/2007 18:36:53)
What type of music are you wanting to play? If you want to do Cajun (in my opinion, Cajun and Quebequois music is the only reason to buy a four stop single row) then a Gabbanelli "Cajun King" might be a good choice at around 400 Pounds. www.gabbanelliaccordions.com I own one and they are well made (Italy not China).
I started on a Hohner 114, and that would be a good choice. You need to close one of the middle reeds to get a "cajun" sound. They are very nice boxes for the money. I would buy a 114 long before I would buy a Hohner "Ariette". The Hohner 114 would work nicely for Irish and general folk as well.
If you want the "real thing", then try and get a genuine hand-made Louisiana such as an Acadian, Martin, Bon Cajun, Le Capitaine, Poullard, etc. A good used one will run 500 Pounds or so, but D tuned boxes are harder to find than the standard C tuned box. The first time you try a real LA box will be a revelation. They are wonderful.
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Mike Gott
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6#
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Rank:none
Posts:264
Registered:05/06/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:02/11/2007 23:37:52)
Reply to : Txbear
....in my opinion, Cajun and Quebequois music is the only reason to buy a four stop single row
Yes, I like that too but we do actually have a tradition of playing the 1-row 4-stop for English music too!
Mike
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Jeff H
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7#
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Registered:15/12/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/11/2007 08:20:12)
I have owned quite a few one rows... from Hohners to handmade Quebec boxes to my current Castagnari Melodeon (Max to some)
I have owned 2 handmade Cajun boxes.. and have played many others
while I don't wish to be the naysayer... the Cajun builders' quality vary greatly one to another.. and they all seem to make the same design with very little departure.. yes there are some exceptions such as Falcon... many actually buy reed blocks and action assemblies from a sub contractor ( also a Cajun).... some build their own..
I prefer to refer to Cajun accordions as having "charm"
I believe that the Cajuns do make the best Cajun boxes ( but it is also my contention that you must be a Cajun to make a Cajun box much lijke you must be an Amish to make Amish furniture)
The one row diatonic 4 reed 4 stopper made by anyone else is not by definition a "Cajun" accordeon.....
Hmm one row boxes for CAjun and Quebecois only.. so what about Irish traditional.. or American bl;ues/folk as played by Leadbelly
what about blues and Zydeco or a little Texas swing or good old cowboy/western (not country western but real western)
Otis, any chance you can recall the one row you liked so much??? 350 pounds sure would be interesting over buying another Castagnari ... as I am hunting for a box in D
and am about to a point of converting a Hohner 114
The Gabinelli box is decent but is not built like a "Cajun" accordion, it has stand up reed blocks and the tuning is not quite Cajun, it also has butted corners, not mitred.. a simple but important mark of quality..... I believe they are modestly priced which is in their favor
of course the Castagnari also has stand up reed blocks.... with a couple upper range reeds laid down....and not a Cajun accordeon
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Mikefule
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8#
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Rank:none
Posts:19
Registered:04/12/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/11/2007 11:44:29)
Reply to : Txbear
If you want to do Cajun(in my opinion, Cajun and Quebequois music is the only reason to buy a four stop single row)...
Your opinion then discounts the many European traditional styles played on this instrument that was invented in Europe? (Volunteers, please, to tell John Kirkpatrick he's a misguided fool for using a 4 stop 1 row to play English music?)
In England alone we have several distinct musical and dance traditions, and our immediate neighbours, Wales, Scotland, Ireland and France, each have their own musical and dance traditions. The one row four stop has an important place in many of these traditions, although it has recently given way to the two row and 2 1/2 row as the instrument of choice for the majority of players.
I know little or nothing about Cajun (I have one CD of it) and nothing about Quebequois music, but I wouldn't dismiss them in such an off hand way.
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Boatman
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9#
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Rank:none
Posts:6
Registered:16/10/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/11/2007 12:41:54)
Reply to : Mikefule
Reply to : TxbearIf you want to do Cajun(in my opinion, Cajun and Quebequois music is the only reason to buy a four stop single row)...Your opinion then discounts the many European traditional styles played on this instrument that was invented in Europe? (Volunteers, please,to tell John Kirkpatrick he's a misguided fool for using a 4 stop 1 row to play English music?)In England alone we have several distinct musical and dance traditions, and our immediate neighbours, Wales, Scotland, Ireland and France, each have their own musical and dance traditions. The one row four stop has an important place in many of these traditions, although it has recently given way to the two row and 2 1/2 row as the instrument of choice for the majority of pl
I think I am more of the "Kirkpatrick" school, but thanks for the thought. My only experience of Cajun is hearing a band called Beau Soleil (I think) out on the west coast. How does Quebec differ from Cajun?
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Mikefule
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10#
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Rank:none
Posts:19
Registered:04/12/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/11/2007 15:31:14)
Reply to : Boatman
I think I ...How does Quebec differ from Cajun?
It's not clear from the way that you quoted, but I think you may have misunderstood my post. My point was that the 1 row 4 stop is used by people from many countries and cultures to play many kinds of music. It is not just a Cajun or Quebequois instrument. My reference toJ ohn Kirkpatrick was ironic: who's going to tell this fantastic English player that he's wrong for using the 1 row 4 stop when he isn't even playing Cajun or Quebequois?
The 1 row melodeon is the traditional East Anglian instrument for dance music. It is played with amazing virtuosity by some Irish players. It was the cheap and cheerful instrument of sailors in the coasting trade on the West of Scotland. I have heard some reports that it may also be used abroad in a Cajun or Quebec style... ;0)
The difference between Quebec and Cajun? I guess it's like the difference between Norfolk and Suffolk, English and Welsh, or Scottish and Irish. It matters very much to those involved, and is obvious to those who are interested, but is only a minor detail to most of the world. <Heavily ironic wink.>
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Jeff H
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11#
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Registered:15/12/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/11/2007 20:09:16)
Hmmmm.... note to self be brief and restrain
Quebec and Cajun
The best I could do here is show an analogy with 5 string banjo
I would call Quebec accordeon Melodic playing and Cajun accordeon pattern picking... yes I know that is a generalization but it's as close as I can get
Listen to Most bluegrass players then listen to Bela Fleck
Cajun is heavy on rhythm and is a percussive style... Quebec is heavy on the melody
Both can have ornamentation but it is the type of ornamentation that makes the difference
Quebec is closer to Irish style of playing than Cajun is to either of those
Quebec playing can be faster than Cajun....
Both started off as dance music.. they have that in common
Cajuns tend to play more octaves ....and "blend" notes....
I like both Cajun and Quebec.. but also Irish
Ah.. and then there is Zydeco one row... a different drive....
Andy has much more experience with Quebec playing and would defer to him for more accurate observations on the style....
The Accordeon player with Beau Soleil is Jimmy Breau and one of my favorite players.. usually dead pan expression on his face as most of it comes theu his fingers.. he is also a decent 3 row player..
Some folks ( Cajuns specifically) don;t care for Beau Soleil because the evolved Cajun music, took it to the road and were successful ( not always a good thing for an isolated culture)
The are like the Irish groups that start bringing in American folk artists or go to Africa or play other than Irish trad.. one group comes to mind... also commercioal and successful ( name withheld)
The accordions are also slighty different....
Until very recently the Cajun acordions were virtual copies of Monarchs and Sterlings.. a couple of makers have improved the design materials and workmanship, but not as much as the Quebec makers..
none to my knowledge make their own bellows as do the Quebec builders
I have owned both.. I would buy another Quebec box.. If I bought a "Cajun" accordeon it would be to my design...
And speaking of "Cajun" accordeons... the real differentiation of any one row bisonoric diatonic 4 reed 4 stop accordeon from a "Cajun " accordeon, is that a Cajun built the "Cajun" accordeon
The famous (infamous) Mark Savoy's playing and box building improved after his encounter with Quebec player Bruneau....
Bruneau played one of Savoys accordeons.. as does (did) Denis Pepin.. but they are older accordeons... the newer ones are largely made by "others"
There is also another subtle detail in Quebec playing and that is pressurizing the bellows before depressing a button... sort of "before the beat"
hard to describe and needs working on to get it down.. I am still working on it...
My favorite Cajun players are the old guys Iry Lejeune, Abshire... Jude Moreau (when he plays the old style)
I am looking fopr suggestions for recordings of East Anglian one row playing preferably without vocals.. dance music....any recommendations for specifics or sources..?
As much as I admire Kirkpatricks playing.. ... (other than his B/C/C# style...fantastic....) I do have a bit of a collection of his work.. great for listening but not my playing style
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NorthernMelodeon
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12#
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Rank:none
Posts:346
Registered:27/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/11/2007 21:23:19)
Reply to : Jeff H
There is also another subtle detail in Quebec playing and that is pressurizing the bellows before depressing a button... sort of "before the beat"
hard to describe and needs working on to get it down.. I am still working on it...
I think that your description is good. The only thing I'd add is that it's not really consciously done -- you just get used to the way it sounds, then get your melodeon to sound that way, and that's what you'll be doing.
-Andy
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bazparkes
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13#
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Rank:none
Posts:1
Registered:05/06/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/11/2007 11:56:28)
Reply to : Jeff H
Looking for English 1 Row players
Hi Jeff
Go to www.veteran.co.uk you can't move without falling over one....
If you still have a cassette player I can't recommend Pigeon on a Gate highly enough...it's agreat introduction to the classic East Anglian style. And as already been said John K.
Enjoy
Baz
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oonrahnjay
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14#
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Rank:none
Posts:260
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/11/2007 14:11:39)
Reply to : NorthernMelodeon
I think that your description is good. (snip)
__. I agree. Sorry that I've been away from this discussion but I've been at a festival in Laugh-yet Louisiana for the past few days and I've been away from internet access. Thanks to Andy and Jeff for very well described (and accurate, in my view) insights.
BH, NC USA
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Jeff H
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15#
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Registered:15/12/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/11/2007 03:30:15)
Thanks for the link to Veteran.... and for the tip on "Pigeon on a Gate"
Brendan Begley.. on the top of my list of Irish one row players....have not seen him in person however I have nearly worn out "We Won't Go Home 'Til Morning"
Also like Paul Brock and Johnny Connolly and Johnny O'Haloran and about a dozen others...
Raynald Oulette.. on the top of my list of Quebec players.. I have seen him live and up close twice and spoken with him about playing technique...also like Gaston Nolet and Denis Pepin and Bruneau and Sabin Jaques and Messervier and about 2 dozen others... fantastic stuff
For English one row players.. don;t know af that many... Andy Cutting is good but as one famous Quebec player said of Cuttings playing.. not quite Quebec, but the notes are there...
I think it has to do with the "popping"
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Txbear
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16#
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Rank:none
Posts:85
Registered:23/05/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/11/2007 21:01:13)
Your opinion then discounts the many European traditional styles played on this instrument that was invented in Europe? (Volunteers, please, to tell John Kirkpatrick he's a misguided fool for using a 4 stop 1 row to play English music?)
In England alone we have several distinct musical and dance traditions, and our immediate neighbours, Wales, Scotland, Ireland and France, each have their own musical and dance traditions. The one row four stop has an important place in many of these traditions, although it has recently given way to the two row and 2 1/2 row as the instrument of choice for the majority of players.
I know little or nothing about Cajun (I have one CD of it) and nothing about Quebequois music, but I wouldn't dismiss them in such an off hand way.
Sorry, I didn't mean to leave out the one-row tradition in Britain etc. No intention to dismiss anything in an off hand way. I suppose I'm just a little to focused on what I see here in Texas. A couple of weeks ago, when Johnny B. Connolly borrowed my one row C a couple of weeks ago and burned off a blazing fast Irish jig, I really saw what could be done with a one-row.
Yes, hand-made boxes can vary in quality and the Louisiana "Cajun" four stop one rows are a somewhat specialized instrument. Quebequois players use pretty much the same box (some differences in tuning). They also pull out two rows of the sort Irish players use. Quebequois has much closer relationships to Irish/Celtic music than anything in Louisiana.
I have decided that anyone who wants to explore the bisonoric, diatonic, button accordion, might want to start with a two row of some sort, a Hohner pokerwork or an Erica perhaps. I expect a 2-1/2 row (G/C with accidentals) could carry you quite a long way.
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Jeff H
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17#
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Registered:15/12/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:08/11/2007 02:54:53)
"they also pull out two rows of the sort Irish players use"
If youy are referring to Quebec.. to my limited iknowledge 2 rows are not a Quebec tradtion
The only 2 row player I know is Denis Pepin.. and his box is a very specialized 25 button D/C# with no basses...
D/C# is more of an American/Irish tradition and usually 1 1/2 rows not a full 2 rows..
Perhaps I've missed something ?
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NorthernMelodeon
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18#
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Rank:none
Posts:346
Registered:27/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:08/11/2007 03:54:57)
Reply to : Jeff H
Perhaps I've missed something ?
No, you aren't missing something. Among perhaps several thousand players, there are a few handfuls of players who have recently taken up the 2 row, some in C#/D, some in D/C#. Also, some of the old players learned on 2 row (although fourth-tuned) boxes -- for example, Francine Desjardins started out with a two-row Hohner, I believe. Besides Denis, Susie plays the 2 row as well (at least, I've heard her play some rather tricky tunes on it), as does Yves Lambert, and Sebastien Dionne. Some other players as well -- perhaps Steve knows some who have more recently experimented with the evil semi-tone systems! But you are right: it's not part of the tradition, which is really mostly for one-row and three-row boxes.
I think Txbear's post reflects the danger of regurgitating second hand knowledge. Jeff, is Txbear actually John Fine? I enjoy sharing my knowledge and love of this topic but it becomes tiresome to correct the unnecessary misinformation that is out there.
-Andy
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Polkaholic
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19#
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Rank:none
Posts:316
Registered:18/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:08/11/2007 15:32:25)
Reply to : NorthernMelodeon
No, you aren't missing something. Among perhaps several thousand players, there are a few handfuls of players who have recently taken up the 2 row, some in C#/D, some in D/C#. Also, some of the old players learned on 2 row (although fourth-tuned) boxes .... But you are right: it's not part of the tradition, which is really mostly for one-row and three-row boxes.
Yes, the great majority of players up here play one-row and/or three-row, even though there are lots of A/D boxes, mainly Hohner Erica-style, lying about the province.
But leaving tradition aside, and the fact that traditions, or rather fashions, can and do change very quickly, what John said is true of the circles I move in. Now I don't have time to follow what's happening on the wider Québec box scene very closely, especially now that I'm no longer in downtown Montreal, but I know three very experienced players with Irish-style boxes whom I see quite regularly (Gilles Garand C#/D, Luc Loyer C#/D, Sylvain Rondeau B/C). The last two have been playing these boxes for well over 10 years and are thus not part of the recent Denis Pépin/Joe Derrane inspired drift towards D/C#.
Steve
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