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NorthernMelodeon
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1#
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Rank:none
Posts:346
Registered:27/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:10/09/2007 14:30:50)
Reply to : hibbs21
im looking to have a new van der aa box made and I was wondering if anyone knows anything about them, what the quality is like and whether or not theyre worth the money...?
Hi Hibbs21,
It's a good question. I would add to your question: does anyone in North America have one? I wonder whether a direct inquiry to Frans himself, in which you ask him for references -- people in Canada who own a vander Aa box -- might be fruitful. Otherwise, what I can say is that all the accounts scattered about the internet are very positive, but this has to be taken with a grain of salt. On this forum, I don't recall that any of the participants own one. On some other box forums (the Irish accordion group on Yahoo -- Han Speek has two of these boxes) you might find an owner. Perhaps someone here who has been to St-Chartier has tried one.
-Andy
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simonw
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2#
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Rank:none
Posts:114
Registered:28/06/2004
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(Date Posted:10/09/2007 15:01:03)
Reply to : hibbs21
im looking to have a new van der aa box made and I was wondering if anyone knows anything about them, what the quality is like and whether or not theyre worth the money...?
A few years ago at Witney Pete Grassby had a second hand two and a half row Compact G/C for sale and I spent a long time playing it because it all just felt right. Its one of the few boxes I've ever played that instantly said "buy me" . Alas financial prudence prevailed. I'm sure a couple of people on this list have one. On the down side I seem to remember a quite recent posting about problems with a box and poor customer service. Whilst the maker wasn't named it was pretty clear that it was Frans but I can't find the reference at the moment. His prices are certainly reasonable for the quality (in fact they've gone down since he moved to Colombia)but most of the boxes have a 12-15 month waiting list.
Simon
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wgwy
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3#
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Rank:none
Posts:176
Registered:01/03/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:10/09/2007 15:36:04)
Reply to : simonw
On the down side I seem to remember a quite recent posting about problems with a box and poor customer service. Whilst the maker wasn't named it was pretty clear that it was Frans but I can't find the reference at the moment. His prices are certainly reasonable for
After the comments in this recent thread, I wouldn't order from this guy if you paid me. And wait 15 months? It's only a melodeon, for goodness sake! There must be many readily-available instruments that will perform just as well.
Bill Y
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oonrahnjay
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4#
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Rank:none
Posts:260
Registered:30/06/2004
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(Date Posted:10/09/2007 15:56:38)
Reply to : NorthernMelodeon
Hi Hibbs21,It's a good question. I would add to your question: does anyone in North America have one?
__. I recently missed a chance to play THE Robin Harrison's Van Der Aa three-row (too much beer to drink, too many wimmins to flirt with ...). THE Robin lives between London and Hamilton, Ontario and has been known to visit this forum occasionally (sorry, don't remember his username; did I mention something about too much beer etc.). He loves this box. It's not the smallest but he says that he wants the big three-voice sound in a three-row and gets it in this box.
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Jeff H
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5#
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Registered:15/12/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:10/09/2007 17:56:22)
Has anyone actually confirmed his current wait time or are thre comments based on past experience?
In his latest message on his web site it states that he has hired 2 other persons to help in addition to his "main squeeze" and wait times should be reduced
12 months for "some" models ???
Ok so l;et's find out how long for a melodeon ( one row) ...
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Mike Gott
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6#
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Rank:none
Posts:264
Registered:05/06/2005
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(Date Posted:11/09/2007 14:51:47)
I've played a two row and it was a lovely instrument, great sound, felt good and with an excellent finish. I have no idea what it cost, though, nor how much of it was to the owner's spec. I'd love to get my hands on one of the 1-rows.
Mike
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Robin Harrison
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7#
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Rank:none
Posts:12
Registered:06/03/2006
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(Date Posted:06/10/2007 18:58:52)
im looking to have a new van der aa box made and I was wondering if anyone knows anything about them, what the quality is like and whether or not theyre worth the money...?
Hi, I live in Paris,Ontario.
I have a big 4-voice ADG VanderAa with Binci reeds.I like it very well..........I hope it will be the last expensive accordion I ever have to buy. I use it for Morris among other things but am actually looking for an old Pokerwork/Erica for that.It is sort of over-specified for Morris as to get the punch you need I have to keep the bottom bellows strap done up and not infrequently run out of air.There is now a regular English music session in Toronto and I use it there and it's perfect.
It is a beautifully constructed and finished box that is both loud when needed and also can be played quietly due to the quality reeds.It sounds fantastic and was a reasonable price when compared to a similar Castagnari.A great action
Perhaps some-one on this forum could advise me on this running out of air.It's not a tecnique issue (I think) as it doesn't happen with other melodeons I've played.Do the reeds need to be re-set ? I do this with concertinas all the time ( re-setting and re-tuning) but have never thought about having it done to my melodeon.If I depress the button and gently press the bellows, you hear air excaping from the reed not sound.Happens on a lot of buttons.I guess I should take it to an accordion tecnician?
So,would I recommend the maker or indeed buy another one from him ?..................................
The reeds seemed poorly set when I recieved it 2-3 years ago........I don't think it has happened with use.
I was surprised how rudimentary the packing was when mine arrived in Canada............no damage but odd seeing how much money I'd spent.The instrument was just placed in the hard carrying case and then simply packed in a card-board box.Inadequate,really.
Very little useful help or advice when dicussing specs.I got the impression he was not a player,he was not particularly interested,which at the time I put down to me not speaking his language.
He mis-read a clear natural sign and so gave me a (duplicated) F# as an accidental rather that an F natural..............and then it needed a number emails to accept I had a problem that I had to pay to resolve. He sent me some Binci reeds that I he wanted me to pay for.I resented very much that I had to convince him there was a problem.............I even had to re-send him my original specs. which he already had.
I had about seven different invoices from him until he finally got it right.
Would I buy from him again??? He is a very talented builder.......it's a beautiful box that needs some reed adjustment probabaly . If I could visit his shop and deal with him direct,yes I would.If I knew that he was partnered with someone who understood customer relations and business management and was responsible for that, yes I would. Otherwise,no. A friends son plays a Castagnari Benny that I like fine, I used to have a Tommy I bought from the Button Box that was great.I think there are plenty of safe choices out there.
Regards Robin...........
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oonrahnjay
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8#
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Rank:none
Posts:260
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:06/10/2007 19:48:36)
Reply to : Robin Harrison
(snip) I have a big 4-voice ADG VanderAa with Binci reeds. I like it very well..........I hope it will be the last expensive accordion I ever have to buy. I use it for Morris among other things but am actually looking for an old Pokerwork/Erica for that. It is sort of over-specified for Morris as to get the punch you need I have to keep the bottom bellows strap done up and not infrequently run out of air. (snip)
Perhaps some-one on this forum could advise me on this running out of air. It's not a tecnique issue (I think) as it doesn't happen with other melodeons I've played. Do the reeds need to be re-set ? I do this with concertinas all the time ( re-setting and re-tuning) but have never thought about having it done to my melodeon. If I depress the button and gently press the bellows, you hear air excaping from the reed not sound. Happens on a lot of buttons. I guess I should take it to an accordion tecnician?
__. Hi, Robin. I'm very sorry the I missed the chance to play that VdA in Tronna. We'll just have to do it again. It's interesting to hear your description of "running out of air". I first immediately thought "four-reed boxes just use a lot of air". And they do - expecially the big bassoon reed needs a noticeable amount of air -- with a box with stops, it's amazing to see how you can cut down on air use by cutting that reed out. In fact, every workshop that I've ever done with Normand Miron, he advises students to take that bassoon reed out while learning -- no need to push all that air and create yet another handicap for yourself. But that "depress the button and gently press the bellows, you hear air excaping from the reed not sound. Happens on a lot of buttons." This should have no place with high-quality reeds. They should begin to speak *immediately* with even the slightest hint of bellows pressure/air. As you know from concertinas, the placement of the reed tongue in relationship to the reed frame is critical. If the reed is either below or above the "sweet spot", it won't sound immediately. (And I'm going to guess that this problem is probably in the bigger reeds - you might see the "slow to speak" thing in a mis-set piccolo reed but I'm guessing that it won't be using enough air to matter.)
__. So, I'd work with the technique a little bit - four reeds are just different (but I'm gonna guess that that's the least of your problem). Didn't you say that you have reed selectors/stops as buttons or levers on the back of the fingerboard (gee, the effects of lots of beer on an aging brain ...)? I'd also experiment with which notes take too much air - in fact, I'd make a matrix chart like:
G-Row --
G/push -- button 3; bassoon slow to speak
A/pull -- button 3; all reeds OK
B/push -- button 4; all reeds OK
C/pull -- button 4; both violin reeds slow to speak
etc ....
__. It would be a big job (and pretty much of a PITA) but it would show you the magnitude of the problem plus it might show some pattern in the problem. But I'm thinking that a good resetting of the reeds by someone who really knows what he's doing is in order.
(On the other hand, you could just solve all your problems by squirting your box with WD-40 -- that's MAGIC stuff.  )
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Theo Gibb
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9#
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Rank:none
Posts:758
From: Great_britain 
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 4850 hours
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(Date Posted:06/10/2007 22:30:25)
Reply to : Robin Harrison
to get the punch you need I have to keep the bottom bellows strap done up and not infrequently run out of air
Well no wonder you run out of air, you are using only the top half of the bellows! I'd love to know how it helps to keep one strap done up?
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NorthernMelodeon
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10#
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Rank:none
Posts:346
Registered:27/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:07/10/2007 04:11:34)
Reply to : Robin Harrison
Would I buy from him again??? He is a very talented builder.......it's a beautiful box that needs some reed adjustment probabaly .
I just read your description of the box and chalk most of it up to poor business skills, but the reed setting thing is on a different level. If it is really as bad as you describe, to my mind it bars the man from the "talented builder" category!!! Without the reeds being appropriately set, it's a bit like a violin builder who delivers an instrument with a stock bridge that hasn't been altered at all. Sure, a good repairer can finish the job for you, but why wasn't it done right to begin with? I mean, from a factory I would expect this kind of "kit" (as Jeff would call it) but not from a custom builder.
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Steve_freereeder
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11#
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Rank:none
Posts:405
Registered:01/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:07/10/2007 10:29:43)
Reply to : Robin Harrison
.....It is sort of over-specified for Morris as to get the punch you need I have to keep the bottom bellows strap done up and not infrequently run out of air.......
Like Theo, I am puzzled by this remark. I have been playing for around 25 years, many of those involving playing for dancing at festivals, and morris dancing-out, etc. and I have seen and heard very many experienced and competent morris musicians. Never once have I come across anyone who keeps one of the bellows straps fastened in order to 'get the punch you need'. Why do this? Is it a peculiarity of musicians in Paris, Ontario? Does anyone else do this?
To me, this seems like trying to drive a car with the hand-brake permanently on!
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Robin Harrison
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12#
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Rank:none
Posts:12
Registered:06/03/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:08/10/2007 18:41:10)
Sure, a good repairer can finish the job for you, but why wasn't it done right to begin with? I mean, from a factory I would expect this kind of "kit" (as Jeff would call it) but not from a custom builder.
That's what I thought initially.However after all the unpleasantness with ONE reed that was wrong.............I couldn't face sending it back with all that that would involve.....questionable packing,arguing,who pays etc.I just wrote it off as the cost of doing business by post from abroad.
Well no wonder you run out of air, you are using only the top half of the bellows! I'd love to know how it helps to keep one strap done up?
Hi Theo................if you go to the Concertina Connection site and search in the tecnique pages, you'll find information on playing the English Concertina and keeping the bellows in the shape of a Vee ie trying to keep the sided oposite you touching.It explains why and how the old players were able play with only four-fold bellows.Same principle. Here it is actually.....http://www.concertinaconnection.com/bellows%20technique.htm In the case with my large melodeon I keep the bottom touching.I've seen this used by piano accordion players who have to deal with large bellows.I am not saying it is ideal and it may well be a fix for another problem ( poorly set reeds).But it works very, very effectively.The bottom is fixed and your left hand is pushing at the top of the bellows. I don't have the physics to explain the effect but it must be something to do with increasing the air pressure/compression with in the bellows chamber and also giving more support to the bellows.
Is it a peculiarity of musicians in Paris, Ontario?
I am he, so I guess the answer is Yes.
I have been playing for around 25 years, many of those involving playing for dancing at festivals, and morris dancing-out, etc. and I have seen and heard very many experienced and competent morris musicians. Never once have I come across anyone who keeps one of the bellows straps fastened in order to 'get the punch you need'
As have I.........1974 was when I started playing and watching other musicians. I would just say that you haven't seen anyone alse play MY melodeon.I'm not recommending it as a desirable tecnique.Merely replying to a question about a particular maker and my experience of how I try get the best out of it.It's hard to put into words,but with both straps undone there is a "flabby" feel when playing.....with the bottom strap done up it becomes louder,more responsive and loses that "loose"feel.
Finally, I did mention in my post that I am looking for a Poker-work type melodeon for Morris...........this particular accordion I think is not an ideal for Morris . It's too big and too expensive.When it starts to rain, I head for the bar!! (where I often find oonrahnjay !!)
Regards to everyone............and may England prevail next Saturday in France!
Robin
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Lester Bailey
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13#
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Rank:none
Posts:344
Registered:27/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:08/10/2007 19:37:35)
Reply to : Robin Harrison
Hi Theo................if you go to the Concertina Connection site and search in the tecnique pages, you'll find information on playing the English Concertina and keeping the bellows in the shape of a Vee ie trying to keep the sided oposite you touching.It explains why and how the old players were able play with only four-fold bellows.Same principle. Here it is actually.....http://www.concertinaconnection.com/bellows%20technique.htm In the case with my large melodeon I keep the bottom touching.I've seen this used by piano accordion players who have to deal with large bellows.
I, like Theo and Steve, am bemused by your theory of leaving the bottom bellows strap done up. This is compounded by your two examples to support the idea both being boxes that do not require bellow reversals to select the note. But if it works for you.
A good example of the theory in practice on an English can be seen HERE
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georgegarside
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14#
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Registered:19/06/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:08/10/2007 20:55:21)
Reply to : Robin Harrison
Sure, a good repairer can finish the job for you, but why wasn't it done right to begin with? I mean, from a factory I would expect this kind of "kit" (as Jeff would call it) but not from a custom builder.That's what I thought initially.However after all the unpleasantness with ONE reed that was wrong.............I couldn't face sending it back with all that that would involve.....questionable packing,arguing,who pays etc.I just wrote it off as the cost of doing business by post from abroad.Well no wonder you run out of air, you are using only the top half of the bellows! I'd love to know how it helps to keep one strap done up?
like Theo et al I too am bemused by the idea of keeping the bottom strap on whilst playing, mainly because it is pointless from whatever angle you look at it. There are advantages as far as fine bellows control in keeping the bellows fairly near to closed and more or less in the shape of a fan but it is impossible to do this all the time due to the need to extend them furthur to cope with a large forthcoming dose of push notes.
The bigger the box, the bigger the bellows aand the more they can be played fan shaped but never with the bottom strap fastened . Even Sir Jimmy Shand who was famed for his minimalist attitude to bellows opening (on push/pull boxes of course) and who frequently played with only 2 or 3 pleats of the bellows open (to give best control of the push/pulls) took them much furthur open according to the forthcoming needs of the tune. He also used much greater bellow opening when playing his C#D hohner erica.
My personal preference is to keep the bellows as 'tight' as possible most of the time, opening them furthur according to the needs of a particular tune and when the need is no longer to return them to a less open position with the top in effect more open than the bottom i.e. fan shaped. There is no single 'correct' way and many very competant players use large amounts of bellows opening.
george
george
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Robin Harrison
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15#
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Rank:none
Posts:12
Registered:06/03/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:08/10/2007 22:29:39)
I too am bemused by the idea of keeping the bottom strap on whilst playing, mainly because it is pointless from whatever angle you look at it.
Pointless ? Well, no. In my hands it makes the accordion much more playable.I concede ( and have talked about this earlier) that possibly I am compensating for a flaw in the instrument......badly set reeds.
There are advantages as far as fine bellows control in keeping the bellows fairly near to closed and more or less in the shape of a fan but it is impossible to do this all the time due to the need to extend them furthur to cope with a large forthcoming dose of push notes.
Well this is what I'm doing............except with the bottom strap done up...........and then take a large gulp of air when needed.Here is a Youtube vid. of the wonderful Will Starr...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy7ICRQzmIk.....playing most of the time with the bottom of the bellows touching. George ,you call what I do "pointless from any angle",but it does seem like we are talking about very similar things......playing with bottom of the bellows mainly closed and top somewhat more open.I just lock the bottom.
A good example of the theory in practice on an English can be seen HERE
Interesting Lester.Coincidently, I must have noticed this because 4 months ago there is a comment by me (RPDCH) !
Kind Regards Robin
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Polkaholic
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16#
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Rank:none
Posts:316
Registered:18/07/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:08/10/2007 22:52:13)
Reply to : Robin Harrison
Here is a Youtube vid. of the wonderful Will Starr...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy7ICRQzmIk.....playing most of the time with the bottom of the bellows touching.
Wow - that's a real man's instrument! He has three rows of sharps! But is that a youthful Rod Stewart in the audience at 0.26?
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Folkiekay
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17#
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Rank:none
Posts:85
Registered:30/06/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:09/10/2007 19:22:23)
I've actually seen some folks with piano accordions play with the bottom strap still buckled. For my own amusement, I'd like to see a video of someone playing with the top strap buckled and the bottom one left open!
Kay
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georgegarside
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18#
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Registered:19/06/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:09/10/2007 20:53:06)
Reply to : Polkaholic
Wow - that's a real man's instrument! He has three rows of sharps! But is that a youthful Rod Stewart in the audience at 0.26?
The 4th (inside row) on Will Starrs box was a dummy one (the box is still in existance complete with dummy row which Will added as a prank to kid people that he was playing a continental chromatic. The box was an absolutely standard Shand MorinoBCC# and the bottom strap was definately not fastened! ~Will was an absolutely brilliant player unfortunately struck down in his prime by cancer. There are now 3 CD's of his recordings available from Ross Records www.rossrecords.com which are well worth a listen to.
george
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Old Leaky
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19#
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Rank:none
Posts:65
Registered:09/02/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:14/10/2007 12:56:25)
Reply to : Robin Harrison
Here is a Youtube vid. of the wonderful Will Starr...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy7ICRQzmIk.....
Er, reminds me why my interest in the box was sparked by Irish music, despite my being Scottish!
As for VanderAa boxes (getting back to this thread, remember?), I have one of Frans' Compact Irish II in C#/D, custom made for me with 23 buttons (long inside row) and 12 basses. It is a lovely piece of work with great sound and action, mainly due to well set-up Binci hand-made reeds.
I've now gotten over my initial dismay at the inadequate and thoughtless packaging (no padding i.e. no bubblewarp or even plastic around the instrument which was placed inside its case with the straps still attached which caused damage to the teak finish and the metal grille) and some tuning problems (e.g. left hand chord 3rd and 5th reeds swapped around - since put right by Theo Gibbbs) and difficulty dealing with Frans in person, and even more so via many at times fraught emails (I placed my order before he moved to South America, where it was completed and sent from) some of which were less than professional (on his part, not mine). Language differences were a factor but I put it down mostly to temprament.
At the end of the day it was worth it but I doubt I'll ever do business with him again. Let's just say I don't think we'll be on each other's Chistmas cards lists!
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Jeff H
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20#
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Registered:15/12/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:19/10/2007 06:37:20)
The Van Der AA packaging reminds me of the Mory I received from a German dealer.....
Case damaged... bass switching mechanism broken off internally
Original case.. accordion put in the case with NO padding and then simply put in the original Castagnari carton with no further packing...
Dealer refused to compensate me for the damage and said that would be the last accordion he sent to an American... ! : )
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oakchipper
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21#
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Rank:none
Posts:3
Registered:19/09/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:19/10/2007 12:07:57)
Reply to : Jeff H
The Van Der AA packaging reminds me of the Mory I received from a German dealer.....Case damaged... bass switching mechanism broken off internallyOriginal case.. accordion put in the case with NO padding and then simply put in the original Castagnari carton with no further packing...Dealer refused to compensate me for the damage and said that would be the last accordion he sent to an American... ! : )
Damage boxes in transit.
just had delivered 2 week old box from Switzerland,not packaged correctly and strap buckles have dented cherry melodeon case,lookily I think the dents can be got out however my point of replying,instruct the seller by email or fax that you want melodeon packaging correctlt with bubble wrap or similar round buckles and instrument wedging in case.I didn,t do this because I assumed private seller would care.
If instructions not carried out then photograph instrument as soon as case opened then claim of sender.
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Old Leaky
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22#
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Rank:none
Posts:65
Registered:09/02/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:20/10/2007 20:05:25)
Reply to : oakchipper
... ,instruct the seller by email or fax that you want melodeon packaging correctlt with bubble wrap or similar round buckles and instrument wedging in case.I didn,t do this because I assumed private seller would care.
If instructions not carried out then photograph instrument as soon as case opened then claim of sender.
I also once received a box from a private eBay seller packed without any "filler" while I would have again expected more common sense. Luckily there was no damage but I put that partly down to my insisting on paying extra for 24hr delivery instead of it rattling about through the postal service for a week.
That I didn't learn from this when dealing with Frans was perhaps na?et?- but, hey, I was dealing with a pro! While the first box was moving within the UK only, the VanderAa was coming from South America to Europe, therefore packaging is something that any prospective purchaser, and vendor, needs to be clear about during any transaction.
With the benefit of hindsight (and for the future for sure!), I wish I had made that clear but one would have thought that someone who has been in the business for 25 years would have known better! That he didn't, trusting to chance instead it seems, I still find incredible. When I remonstrated with him, backed up with numerous photos of the various damages, his view seemed to be that since no-one else (apart from one more unfortunate customer "of 168", of which I was "the most ungrateful"!,) had experienced any problems, then it was a freak occurrence! As for pressing him for a (modest) measure of compensation, he more or less accused me of stealing the bread from his mouth! OK, he must work on tight margins but, assuming he makes a reasonable living from it, there must have been some latitude, if only for the sake of good customer service and the prospect of repeat business. Unlikely ...
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